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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#551

Post by jm4 »

frabcus wrote: post #491
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

Umm, Fable only really came out 2 weeks ago, and GPT-5.6 Sol only 1 week ago. Yes, Kimi K3 appears a touch below them both, but above all other models. So I'd say a few weeks behind, not months now...

That assumes progress is linear, which it certainly is not. We’re also assuming Chinese companies are releasing their best stuff when our own government is dictating what American companies can and cannot release.

I don’t know for sure that they are weeks or months behind. I doubt anyone outside of 3 letter agencies knows that. The pace of AI is crazy fast and China is notoriously secretive. We could be comfortably ahead or China could have the top model by the end of the year.

I don’t think any of us have enough information to know what’s really going on, but I suspect it’s a very tight race.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#552

Post by avazhi »

throwa356262 wrote: post #527
avazhi wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used fable more than a month ago, what are you talking about?

Both mythos and fable were available in a preview version first. The preview models were not as good as the final release. Thus training must have continued after the initial announcement

Nah that’s not how that works. There are literally an endless stream of examples of the model providers tweaking backend stuff and improving prompt responses without using new or retrained data. And even if they added new training data to an existing model, it isn’t true to say that model ‘just came out’. But even then, when providers release better models based on new training data they release it as a new dot version, which boosts their sales from the announcement.

Fable has been out for more than a month - I didn’t have the preview version and I was using it around June 10th, when my Claude subscription expired. Saying “Fable only really came out 2 weeks ago” is just factually incorrect all around.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#553

Post by mannanj »

nikcub wrote: post #379
theplumber wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I pretty sure OpenAI and Anthropic are doing the same or worse. No they're not. It would end both companies if they were ever found to be doing that. Their terms are clear - if you use the coding plans they can[0] train in return. Enterprise and API, absolutely not. The argument here is that with the Chinese labs you have zero legal recourse. [0] opt-in, thanks

I think the risk of not doing is more existential than doing so and getting caught. Wouldn’t you agree?

Edit: And the point of the poster is they have already demonstrated a track record of lying and misconduct, so how can you trust their word now? What have they done to show you they have taken responsibility for past actions and changed?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#554

Post by flexagoon »

ghm2199 wrote: post #537

[flagged]

> It’s possible that the chat/ux model does know and has an unbiased opinion about china, but the filtering is on the front end/client side and so the user facing model has not been fine tuned natively

This has always been the case with Chinese models. Their web ui is a service provided from China, so they are required to censor it, but not the models themselves.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#555

Post by mathisfun123 »

greenavocado wrote: post #482
smcnally wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

groq did an ASIC for llama and now for nvidia. Their cloud service is fast. > NVIDIA Groq 3 LPU Inference Accelerator > The NVIDIA Groq 3 LPU is the next generation of Groq’s innovative language processing unit. Each LPX rack features 256 interconnected LPU accelerators that, together with the NVIDIA Vera Rubin platform, supercharge inference. Each LPU accelerator delivers 500 megabytes (MB) of SRAM, 150 terabytes pe…

I wonder where those now worthless ASICs are rotting

if they were rotting NV wouldn't be advertising the product (nor hiring for it - which they are)

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#556

Post by kelnos »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #502
energy123 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

Are you saying if someone gives you something for free, it's immoral if they don't continue giving it to you for free forever? The children's book "if you give a mouse a cookie" was about exactly this phenomenon

If the cookie in this analogy is crack cocaine, then yes, I'd say it's immoral.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#557

Post by yieldcrv »

Anthropic needs to IPO and dump on you all’s retirement plans quick

This was only a month and a half delay after Opus 4.8 and Fable 5 spent 18 days in embargo, resurrected with a strict classifier that handicaps it

We’re at endgame

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#558

Post by yieldcrv »

api wrote: post #415
lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

I had a thought a while back: sell large local models burned onto fused compute / ROM chips. Like cartridges for old game consoles. Slot (or probably plug into USB-C) and go. It’s an ASIC with the model wired into it so it’s very low power and fast. I’d buy these. Say $100 for a frontier class model. Maybe more.

Thats happening, in progress

We’ll see what the market chooses

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#559

Post by fastball »

ekojs wrote: post #37

> In our evaluations, Kimi K3 delivers frontier-level performance. Among the models tested, its overall intelligence ranks second only to Claude Fable 5 and GPT-5.6 Sol. For the complete benchmark results, see our tech blog. The full model weights of Kimi K3 will be released in the coming days. More details on the architecture, training, and evaluation will be published together with the Kimi K3 technical report. > K…

In my experience, the Chinese models are much more benchmaxxed than their frontier lab competitors, so I'm taking these results with a fairly large helping of salt.
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