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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#481

Post by throwa356262 »

icedrift wrote: post #155
wolttam wrote: post #104

I'm a bit nervous this one isn't going to be open-weights. Any mention of "open" has been struck from the literature for this model (it was present an hour ago). We don't even know active params? At this pricing, I'll be surprised if it's open.

Reuters has been reporting that Chinese government is undergoing similar investigation to the US; blocking the export of domestic frontier models. They boil down to "anonymous sources" but it does seem inevitable as the tech gets stronger and stronger.

I am afraid this is may happen soon.

Now that they have compute capacity to train larger models, there is a non-zero chance they will be in the lead by next year.

In which case they will probably stop sharing to protect their position.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#482

Post by greenavocado »

smcnally wrote: post #453
lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

groq did an ASIC for llama and now for nvidia. Their cloud service is fast. > NVIDIA Groq 3 LPU Inference Accelerator > The NVIDIA Groq 3 LPU is the next generation of Groq’s innovative language processing unit. Each LPX rack features 256 interconnected LPU accelerators that, together with the NVIDIA Vera Rubin platform, supercharge inference. Each LPU accelerator delivers 500 megabytes (MB) of SRAM, 150 terabytes pe…

I wonder where those now worthless ASICs are rotting

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#483

Post by f3408fh »

mahkeiro wrote: post #345
ImageXav wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been avidly using Fable since it was re-released and while it has been excellent at building the apps I want, the reasoning has been completely opaque. Kim, however, has exposed the whole reasoning trace, or enough of it to matter. I'd almost forgotten how nice it is to see this. I've been able to see all of the weird twist and turns it takes and it is joyful. But also, far, far more informative and means I can…

The reasoning is key as most of the time the summary provided by fable is not enough to understand the choice and correct the logic. You have to either fully trust it or go to an exhaustive code review. This with the fact that you can only use 4.8 to security review the code produce by fable are the reasons I will not renew my anthropic subscription, the current experience is way to degraded.

What will you be replacing it with, if anything?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#484

Post by vidarh »

vidarh wrote: post #170
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends entirely on the hosting situation. If someone can provide a subscription plan at slightly lower rates, it's absolutely compelling.

Moonshot has subscriptions maxing out at $199/month. Not home so not had a chance to see if K3 is included yet. EDIT: Just switched my Kimi-CLI session to K3 and resumed my ongoing /goal... Will be interesting to see if I notice a difference.

I'll say after having it run for a few hours that I still don't feel it matches even Sonnet. It still does a lot of back and forth that feels dumb, but it's possible this is in effect Anthropic tricking us by hiding the full reasoning traces - who knows what Sonnet still sounds like if you were to see the whole thing.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#485

Post by bamboozled »

simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

That seat looks painful.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#486

Post by doctorpangloss »

nikcub wrote: post #379
theplumber wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I pretty sure OpenAI and Anthropic are doing the same or worse. No they're not. It would end both companies if they were ever found to be doing that. Their terms are clear - if you use the coding plans they can[0] train in return. Enterprise and API, absolutely not. The argument here is that with the Chinese labs you have zero legal recourse. [0] opt-in, thanks

they train on your requests by paraphrasing them (which means rewriting them but keeping all the saliency) and removing their association with you

i don't know why this is so controversial, their terms are written to perfectly fit this training regime. one of you downvoters i'm sure has an enterprise contract with them, just ask.

if you are using bedrock, until very recently, they didn't see your requests and could not paraphrase. but too many people were using bedrock for too much stuff they wanted to see. so that's why the terms for bedrock changed for fable 5. this was the core of the palantir / defense dept drama with anthropic.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#487

Post by munksbeer »

sm-silversight wrote: post #195
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #173

On the first try, Kimi K3 just found the source of a bug that Fable 5 hasn't been able to pinpoint in multiple attempts. It's just one anecdote, and I haven't used K3 much yet, but so far it's looking extremely promising.

How do you use kimi for agentic tasks? I'm used to claude code & codex extensions for vs code, but recently switched to codex cli w/ vim keybinds. Does something like that exist for openrouter?

I'm on the verge of trying out a home project (Rust) with codex. ChatGPT suggested I start with the codex app and vs code. What made you switch?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#488

Post by verdverm »

adverbly wrote: post #218
ekojs wrote: post #37

> In our evaluations, Kimi K3 delivers frontier-level performance. Among the models tested, its overall intelligence ranks second only to Claude Fable 5 and GPT-5.6 Sol. For the complete benchmark results, see our tech blog. The full model weights of Kimi K3 will be released in the coming days. More details on the architecture, training, and evaluation will be published together with the Kimi K3 technical report. > K…

> Maybe another DeepSeek moment right here. Surely not... What made DeepSeek disruptive was that the cost was 10X lower. In this case, the cost is about 2X lower the Sol I think? At 2X, you're pretty close to the error margins due to token efficiency etc... I'd say this is "on trend" for open models catching up to frontier labs, but its not a "change in the trend" like DeepSeek was IMO.

It's different, but similar. If they release the weights, then we have a Fable / frontier model people can tinker with. Either way, it's still quite impressive and knocked a US company out of the top three (google). How long before China dominates the top-10 (if they don't already) or the #1 model?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#489

Post by micromacrofoot »

softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

it also undercuts American dominance, which is something China is always happy to invest in, even if it doesn't immediately mean Chinese dominance

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#490

Post by bredren »

bamboozled wrote: post #485
simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

That seat looks painful.

It is a normal seat. It is simply covered by floof.
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