British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply • Hacker News Board

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#31

Post by watwut » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:50 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #12

watwut wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bonmot sounded cool and fun years ago, but not anymore. It is actually OK and desirable for governments to help, to organize and to lead toward positive outcome. Governments should do more then just pay military, prisons and police. Deliberate destruction and expectation of nothing positive from the governments already caused enough damage.

It never sounded cool and fun. It was government acknowledging its own limitations. Governments don't perform better if we all cheer them on. Right now a government (Russia's) is waging war on a country. Last century governments caused untold death in socialist countries (Venezuela, China, USSR) because they were trying to organise centrally.

> It was government acknowledging its own limitations

No it was not. It was deliberately trying to make government sound as useless as possible, so that its useful programs can be dismantled.

You are ignoring all good things that came out of governments. That is also deliberate choice. If Ukraine government fell, they would be Russians now. Last century, we have see a lot of good coming out of governments - starting with new deal, human rights, historically unprecedented period of peace in Europe and prosperity. Science, education, healthcare all work better when governments work well.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#32

Post by traceroute66 » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:50 PM UTC

This reminded me of an article in The Economist published last year, April 2025:

"Zombie politics: how Dead Man dominates British politics"[1]

Two prescient paragraphs related to today's news:

    If British politicians worship voters who are no longer among the living, it is natural that they do the same to a version of the British economy that has long departed. “There are people in this country who love to talk down our manufacturing,” said Sir Keir Starmer, the prime minister, while speaking in Jaguar Land Rover’s (JLR) factory in Birmingham. During the 1970s, one in four people worked in manufacturing, like Sir Keir’s dad, who died in 2018. Now fewer than one in ten do.

    Manufacturing, a small part of the economy, plays a big role in politics everywhere. Britain is no exception. A speech at a JLR plant has become a rite of passage for any leading politician in recent years. Dead Man’s old job comes first for Britain’s politicos. The lives of workers in Britain’s services economy come second. True, manufacturing’s weak performance after the financial crisis is one reason for Britain’s woeful productivity growth. Yet politicians cling on to a primitive vision of it. “He made things with his hands,” said Sir Keir of his father. That modern manufacturing requires oodles of educated workers is ignored. Living graduates play little role in political discourse beyond politicians moaning that there are too many of them. After all, Dead Man did not attend university. Why should his grandchildren bother?

[1] https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/04/09/zombie-politics...

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#33

Post by squigz » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:50 PM UTC

tempfile wrote: post #19

philipallstar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never sounded cool and fun. It was government acknowledging its own limitations. Governments don't perform better if we all cheer them on. Right now a government (Russia's) is waging war on a country. Last century governments caused untold death in socialist countries (Venezuela, China, USSR) because they were trying to organise centrally.

In the spirit of fairness I have to note the untold deaths caused by non-socialist countries in Cambodia, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, pretty much every country in South America...

Or even Western nations like America and Canada? How many people die every year from preventable causes? To exposure? To suicide?

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#34

Post by fragmede » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:50 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #12

watwut wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bonmot sounded cool and fun years ago, but not anymore. It is actually OK and desirable for governments to help, to organize and to lead toward positive outcome. Governments should do more then just pay military, prisons and police. Deliberate destruction and expectation of nothing positive from the governments already caused enough damage.

It never sounded cool and fun. It was government acknowledging its own limitations. Governments don't perform better if we all cheer them on. Right now a government (Russia's) is waging war on a country. Last century governments caused untold death in socialist countries (Venezuela, China, USSR) because they were trying to organise centrally.

Then again, the British East India Company committed plenty of atrocities as a corporation, so if we're going to oversimplify to government bad, it seems corporations bad too. Don't get me started on religious either!

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#35

Post by soco » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:53 PM UTC

tempfile wrote: post #19

philipallstar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never sounded cool and fun. It was government acknowledging its own limitations. Governments don't perform better if we all cheer them on. Right now a government (Russia's) is waging war on a country. Last century governments caused untold death in socialist countries (Venezuela, China, USSR) because they were trying to organise centrally.

In the spirit of fairness I have to note the untold deaths caused by non-socialist countries in Cambodia, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, pretty much every country in South America...

Last century non-socialist governments caused untold deaths in many Western countries, starting with Germany for a better known example, but the entire list is quite long. So could it be that it wasn't socialism the problem?

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#36

Post by catigula » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:53 PM UTC

msuniverse2026 wrote: post #18

Interesting how they haven't repeated in this article earlier claims that the Chinese purchase of the steelworks was a strategic move to slowly destroy the blast furnaces by letting them cool under pretext of low demand.

The state intervened to stop the Chinese from sabotaging their furnaces. Seems like an open and shut case unless you have 5 eyes intelligence sources.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#37

Post by 0x3f » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:54 PM UTC

Deukhoofd wrote: post #22

It's probably not a bad idea. Steel is one of the things that an industrialized country needs to produce to protect its own sovereignty. Letting it shut down and just hope you'll always be able to import enough steel from other countries is a bad long-term strategy. You'd be left unable to fend for yourself.

You can make this same argument about a great number of things. Why is steel any more critical than food or vaccines or the like? Indeed we got caught short of vaccines recently, and had some nontrivial consideration of running a military op against NATO member over it.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#38

Post by raverbashing » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:54 PM UTC

traceroute66 wrote: post #32

This reminded me of an article in The Economist published last year, April 2025: "Zombie politics: how Dead Man dominates British politics"[1] Two prescient paragraphs related to today's news: If British politicians worship voters who are no longer among the living, it is natural that they do the same to a version of the British economy that has long departed. “There are people in this country who love to talk down o…

This sounds good until you run out of steel and out of sellers as well

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#39

Post by mr_toad » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:56 PM UTC

The government is forced to sell steel at a loss, because all the buyers for whom this is a such a vital supply would otherwise buy cheaper imported steel, every single one of them.

And ultimately all the ore and coke used to make the steel are imported anyway.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#40

Post by KaiserPro » Thu, Jul 16, 2026, 12:56 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #16

> In March, the National Audit Office released a report noting that the Scunthorpe steelworks was costing the government about £1.3m a day. No, BBC, the government doesn't have money. It costs the net taxpayer that much a day.

When I buy something, it doesn't cost my employer, it costs me.

the pedantry here isn't helpful, as its "not other peoples money" is a monetary system that the government lets us use.

I understand that frustration about frivolous spending. It would be better if the argument was on how we evolve and change the steel market here in the UK so its self funding.

BUT!

the whole discourse about "government shouldn't choose winners" is a bit flawed, because we have left it to business to invest in infra, and mostly they've just outsourced to someone else (who's government actually planned with an industrial strategy)