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DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

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Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#141

Post by BizarroLand »

breezybottom wrote: post #124
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #121

Our country loves to let unregulated & addictive drugs flood into the market, let people become dependent on them, pull the rug by making them illegal, and then arrest them for trying to comply with their addiction. Destroy their lives, cripple their families, send them to prison, get cheap labor. The American way.

[flagged]

This is not a helpful comment. Sometimes griping about injustice is a method of dealing with it, at least venting the stress to a sympathetic audience can reduce the stress a bit.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#143

Post by [deleted] »

CerebralCerb wrote: post #131
none_to_remain wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have anything backing up the last bit? My intuition/life experience doesn't lead me to believe an alcoholic preferring whiskey is particularly worse off than an alcoholic preferring beer, nor that whiskey is more likely to lead one to alcoholism than beer. Claude surfaced this review tending to agree with me, with the exception of acute overdose being more of a risk with the hard stuff. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.g…

Hard liquor is absorbed faster than beer which leads to a stronger rush effect. It's similar to snorting vs shooting cocaine. When the effect hits faster, the psychological association between the stimuli and the effect (sensitization) becomes stronger. This effect has been demonstrated with rat studies using cocaine: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2005...

[deleted]

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#144

Post by alwa »

eldenbishop wrote: post #99
Centigonal wrote: post #19

Actually reasonable decision from the DEA under RFK. Scheduling concentrated/semi-synthetic kratom products while leaving the weaker leaf-based products alone is a good compromise to reduce harm without criminalizing kratom (which has beneficial uses for opioid recovery and maintenance therapy) in general.

Raw leaf Kratom seems to be helpful for some with what I would consider a manageable and acceptable addiction danger. You can get hooked on it, realize there is an issues and cut back or come off it without it destroying your life. I see no reason to make it illegal. I've even seen is used by people to get off "harder" Kratom concentrates. Sorta like how we regulate beer and wine a bit differently than whiskey... sam…

Or, for that matter—the whole thing where Quechua folks chew coca leaf all day, and have for eons, without obvious ill effect…

Coca : cocaine :: kratom : the stuff that just got listed, right?

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#145

Post by gtowey »

parineum wrote: post #82
ralph84 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And sugar

Sugar is required for biology. I'm no more addicted to sugar than I am to water, air or just being alive.

I had a biology teacher who was fond of repeating " everything is toxic, it's just a matter of dosage"

And it's true, you can die from water toxicity.

Water and air are ubiquitous, so we've naturally evolved defenses against overdosing.

Sugar has always been rare and valuable as a food source. In fact most organisms existence revolves around collecting enough chemical energy. It's only in the last 100 years that sugar has become cheap enough for many humans that overdosing is now a problem, and we have little in the way of evolved defenses that keep us from overconsumption.

Sugar addiction is real.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#146

Post by Forgeties79 »

rithdmc wrote: post #78
Forgeties79 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are incredibly reductionist arguments y’all are engaging in.

How so? Sugar is having taxes added in many jurisdictions due to the health effects & habituation it can cause.

Different things are bad in different ways and need to be handled differently. You can’t functionally just go “both can be addictive and kill people therefore your argument is moot.” You’ve removed all qualifiers and context.

To compare them is to respond to a discussion on the threat of guns with some point about people weaponizing their cars and running people over because both can cause bodily harm. I think we can both agree that comparison strips all context and nuance from most conversations about guns OR cars and makes it difficult to talk about either in productive ways outside of the narrow/niche discussions.

TL;DR: this comparison spikes the conversation. Sugar and kratom do not present enough analogous health issues or enough of the same types risks to those around you to warrant lumping them together like that.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#147

Post by antonymoose »

CerebralCerb wrote: post #131
none_to_remain wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have anything backing up the last bit? My intuition/life experience doesn't lead me to believe an alcoholic preferring whiskey is particularly worse off than an alcoholic preferring beer, nor that whiskey is more likely to lead one to alcoholism than beer. Claude surfaced this review tending to agree with me, with the exception of acute overdose being more of a risk with the hard stuff. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.g…

Hard liquor is absorbed faster than beer which leads to a stronger rush effect. It's similar to snorting vs shooting cocaine. When the effect hits faster, the psychological association between the stimuli and the effect (sensitization) becomes stronger. This effect has been demonstrated with rat studies using cocaine: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2005...

Why would liquor be absorbed faster than beer given the same route (drinking)?

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#148

Post by lotsofpulp »

Avicebron wrote: post #107
parineum wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People say "let doctors prescribe", but that ignores how in order for that to happen, a pharma company will need something they can patent, pay for the years of testing, get sole control over it for a period, and years later a generic can come about. Is there not universies that could just do this research on the leaf itself?

Without an official blessing from a pharma company the insurance won't pay for it and doctors are unlikely to prescribe it.

Official blessings come from government officials (such as those working at the offices of the Food and Drug Administration), not pharma companies.

Pharma companies have to apply for official blessings, just the same as universities would have to.

However, taxpayers do not want to spend money on expensive trials to prove efficacy.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#149

Post by BizarroLand »

MiltarizdMerica wrote: post #133
IAmGraydon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion is that long term daily kratom use is terrible for your health, but it doesn't carry an overdose risk so it should stay legal and the decision to use or not should be up to the user.

You have a source on this?

Do people normally have sources on their opinions?

I mean, they did specifically say it was their opinion.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#150

Post by timeinput »

antonymoose wrote: post #147
CerebralCerb wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard liquor is absorbed faster than beer which leads to a stronger rush effect. It's similar to snorting vs shooting cocaine. When the effect hits faster, the psychological association between the stimuli and the effect (sensitization) becomes stronger. This effect has been demonstrated with rat studies using cocaine: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2005...

Why would liquor be absorbed faster than beer given the same route (drinking)?

It's easier to drink more units of alcohol faster when it's more concentrated, and not full of bubbles.

I don't think its so much that it's absorbed faster than it's just physically possible to drink 200 ml of liquor faster than it is to drink 1600ml of beer.

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