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DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

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Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugar is required for biology. I'm no more addicted to sugar than I am to water, air or just being alive.

This is in the same category of statements as "ACTUALLY, everything in food is a chemical".

The parent was the same category of statements as, "I don't eat food that has chemicals." While they sprinkle it a chemical based, flavor enhancing, preservative.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it actually has beneficial uses let a doctor prescribe it. Kratom is extremely addictive and should be illegal yesterday.

This is a very overblown assertion about kratom. I've heard of people getting addicted, but no one I've known personally has ever had any issues. I have been using kratom almost daily for about a decade, and it has been one of the most useful substances for managing my physiology in response to my environment. It's great for stress reduction, but my most common use is actually ADHD treatment (which I doubt would be "…

> but my most common use is actually ADHD treatment

Glad it's working out for you. My partner's brother had been trying to do the same and it has completely changed him for the worse. Blown up his job, marriage, relationship with his young children, and he's damned fortunate that his siblings were raised better than me 'cause if it were my brother we'd be done already.

Adderall had always worked fine for him but we're living in a world where it's exceedingly difficult to keep a Schedule II drug prescription active and fulfilled.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You used to be able to find some wild stuff in GNC ~20 years ago, the 'pro-hormone' era was funny. All the cannabinoid analogs are a good example too, people just want to get high. I do miss salvia extracts though. Being able to pick that up in a head shop was nice before it got banned.

you miss salvia extract??? everyone i know who has done it(myself included) their response was "never doing that again!"

Salvia is great if you're in the right setting and headspace. Its been years since I used it, but I'm glad I did. There's one trip in particular that I sometimes think about and has remained a meaningful part of my life.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#114
Fuck the DEA -- they need to be abolished today.

Then, fuck all the kratom vendors that absolutely irresponsibly market their products.

I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time.

Drugs should not be illegal -- they should be regulated, for purity and for truth in advertising (in the case of kratom making it crystal clear that addiction is inevitable with regular constant use.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#115

Fuck the DEA -- they need to be abolished today . Then, fuck all the kratom vendors that absolutely irresponsibly market their products. I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time. Drugs should not be illegal -- they should be regulated, for purity and for truth in advertising (in the case of kratom making it crystal clear that addiction is inevitable with regular constant…

> I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time.

Any weird side effects. My girlfriend and I tend to use Kratom for the mild stimulant effect.

The worst is ever done for me is make me nauseous enough to vomit, but I live in a state trying to ban all kratom now and the discourse around it is full of anecdotes of people claiming withdrawals as bad as heroin.

Now I’m not a big heroin user, but I’ve been mildly addicted to certain substances (nicotine, weed). I don’t think I’ve ever had withdrawals from Kratom or really felt any craving for it.

I’m really just hoping the busy-bodies don’t get their eyes on Kava.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#116

Actually reasonable decision from the DEA under RFK. Scheduling concentrated/semi-synthetic kratom products while leaving the weaker leaf-based products alone is a good compromise to reduce harm without criminalizing kratom (which has beneficial uses for opioid recovery and maintenance therapy) in general.

I agree this is a fine compromise. Sadly the zealots in my state won’t end there. They’re going after plain leaf powders too.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#117

Kratom is such an interesting drug. About 10 years ago, when it was less well-known, you could find better raw leaf powder and it was helping people get off actual opiates. IIRC there's an effect where the actual chemicals get stronger for older leaves. The bigger market has caused the harvest period to shorten, making the powder worse quality, and creating room for the concentrated extracts and stuff like 7-Oh. Trag…

>All when you can dry a leaf and use it as-is. With no evidence of efficacy that the aforementioned expensive years of testing/trials provide.

They didn't have to include women in drug trials until 1993.

I'm not going "science isn't always right!" but it can absolutely be a racket with major blindspots and regulatory capture that ensures cures and treatments can only reach patients if it makes sufficient profit.

Kratom didn't just sprout up one day in 2014. It's been used as a form of traditional medicine in its home regions longer than there's been an FDA.

It's one thing to say "I think chemical compounds marketed as medicine should be given rigorous study", but a whole other thing to declare classes of unrefined plants illegal because not enough fingers are in the pie yet.

I'm convinced half the reason we don't have realistic cannabis regulation in this country is because it grows like a weed and cannot be controlled to the extent it would need to be in order for companies to build up full control.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA and the DEA have no connection to each other. The DEA is a law enforcement agency that aims to fight illegal drug trafficking. the FDA is regulatory agency that aims to ensure the food and medicine legally sold in the US is safe.

The DEA enforces FDA regulations though through criminal and civil prosecution of those using otherwise DEA-legal and properly prescribed substances that are not FDA approved. Except for medical marijuana which had specific executive order to place state-licensed cannabis exempted from FDA regulation, a legally prescribed controlled substance becomes a DEA enforceable illegal substance when it is dispensed without FD…

This is mostly incorrect. The DEA enforces the Controlled Substances Act and the list of scheduled drugs, not FDA regulations.

If you are out there using e.g some experimental cancer drug that hasn't been FDA approved yet, the DEA isn't going to stop you. Their mission is to stop recreational use of drugs that get you high.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid, there were cigarette vending machines. I am not that old.

Kids can still order wine and cigars from the internet without ID. When I was a child I did it. The law doesn't require signature on delivery, and the deliveryman has no idea what's inside and thus will accept signature from anyone including me when I was a child. The regulations on selling tobacco in person AFAIK are only for cigarette and cigeratte labeled type rolling tobacco. You can still order perfectly cigaret…

Or, heaven forbid, a kid could spill a pinch of bread yeast into a bottle of fruit juice, wait a week or so, put it in the freezer overnight, and get some alcohol stronger than wine! No internet required!

In practice I think most young people who want to drink will just get it from a "cool older brother" or steal it, whether from parents or corner stores. At least that is what I saw in semi-rural America.

People will do what they want to do, with or without vending machines and online ordering.

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