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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#361

Post by zoobab »

blop wrote: post #25

This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the st…

"zero talk about forcing companies (at least for the ones shipping android phones) to open up their firmwares and allow users to install alternative OS if they want to sell in the EU."

Complete public datasheets on how to program the hardware should be a requirement fit a DMA2.0.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#362

Post by duskdozer »

roundabout-host wrote: post #111
anal_reactor wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only with Android or iOS 99% of people understand this as "you need a smartphone" which is not a problem in 2026, even for the elderly.

"only if you choose to share your personal data with either Google or Apple"?

I don't think it's going to be any more convincing with that. At this point anyone I encounter in "normal" life already assumes that I and everyone else has and primarily uses a Google or Apple account.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#363

Post by izacus »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #341
izacus wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how EU works though (EU can actually directly order states arouns :P), so I'm not sure how that's relevant here?

That doesn't appear to be accurate: https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/faq-eu-competences-and... Moreover, it's ignoring the context of the thread. The relevance is obviously that coercing someone to do something against their will and then saying they're still in charge because they're the ones doing it is a sham.

Can you highlight what part of that FAQ doesn't make it accurate? EU directives are a thing.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#364

Post by izacus »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #343
izacus wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The law" requires no such thing and there's nothing preventing those new OSes form providing proper security signals. But is DOES require work - and it's much easier to complain than to put in work.

> "The law" requires no such thing It requires age verification and provides code whose development was subsidized by the government, which third parties the user doesn't control will use, that creates a dependency on those platforms. > there's nothing preventing those new OSes form providing proper security signals. A network effect, far from being nothing, is a barrier the height of a mountain. The purpose of attes…

> The purpose of attestation is to lock out competing platforms. It security value is a joke.

This is kind of your... opinion man.

In reality pretty much all security sensitive applications require attestation from their side.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#365

Post by 3abiton »

Deukhoofd wrote: post #271
Erikun wrote: post #36

Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?

This entire issue is a disaster of a Github issue. It looks like its on the entirely wrong repository. I did eventually find the text in another repository; the one for the Android reference implementation: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android... It was removed from there to clarify the entire "Hey, this application is not done yet" It being in the reference implementation instead of the spec…

Honestly, root detection is a cat and mouse game. So many ways to spoof it. Same with Play Integrity. If the goal is to prevent bad actors, it will never work really. It will be just a big headache for the citizens. Look at how gatekeeping certain websites is working. VPNs became mainstream. So are proxies too especially for bad actors. Malicious actors have just to pay up a service to do so. And I am sure it will be the same with Android (it already is with keyboxes you can purchase to spoof play integrity)

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#366

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

duxup wrote: post #263

The unintended consequence of poorly thought out regulations (good or bad) can be wild. I’m still having to deal with making some sort of legal agreement with EVERY website I visit over cookies constantly… I just don’t care anymore / click whatever.

uBlock has lists you can enable for most of these.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#367

Post by knorker »

dzjkb wrote: post #290
knorker wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment sounds like a politician who has just heard a magic technical incantation that solves everything. I'm sorry, you can't just drop "quantum computer", or "zero knowledge proof", or "flux capacitor", and think that you have solved the problem. Just dropping "zero-knowledge proof" as if it's a mic drop moment is like when Turnbull said "the laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that appl…

literally 0 substance in a 5 paragraph comment, I'm starting to think this might be a not-exactly-human poster

Ironic, since LLMs have had problems counting, and so do you in counting paragraphs.

I felt your comment was so uninsightfully vapid and arrogant that it's uselessness could not be described briefly.

But sure, it does boil down to "sigh, that's not even wrong", but I suspect you not only don't know what that means, but that you would not be curious enough about life to look it up.

I note that you still did not provide a solution. You didn't even describe the requirements, and the problem here starts with a problem definition that doesn't inherently lead to it being either logically unsolvable, or leading to turnkey tyranny.

Edit: I use punctuation because I was born in the 1900s. And was on the internet when this issue started in the 90s, which makes me react to your "why don't we just...".

And if you look carefully, you'll find my punctuation choices are clearly un-LLM-like.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#368

Post by ____mr____ »

hnisnotbenign wrote: post #305
jstummbillig wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretending that those options are equal is a false dichotomy. Not participating is an option up to a point, and then it is increasingly limiting all other options.

[flagged]

We will see how optional it is to not participate in age verification when software used for interfacing with the world (such as bank apps or similar) require you to use age verification. On top of this, barring your children from apps requiring it is just going to socially isolate them from their peers.

The fact of the matter is that if we want companies to be accountable for the pedophiles on their platform, they simply have to enforce some privacy invasive policies.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#369

Post by ____mr____ »

dheera wrote: post #123
kubo6472 wrote: post #23

Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.

You won't be able to see a doctor when you're sick. You won't be able to open a bank account to receive your salary. You won't be able to buy train or plane tickets. My point is I am most worried that these kind of "digital verification" type things most impact actual necessities. The social media I couldn't care less about. "I just won't use it" isn't really a solution.

You already have to provide your passport/health insurance/legal id which already has your identity to your airline/doctor/employer. Why is this suddenly a problem when it is digitized?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#370

Post by knorker »

izacus wrote: post #301
knorker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you use Netherlands as a good example, considering that famously, their existing unusually thorough registry was super helpful for the Nazis rounding up jews later. I don't think it's Godwin's Law when you are so spot on, exactly describing the worst case.

> Funny you use Netherlands as a good example, considering that famously, their existing unusually thorough registry was super helpful for the Nazis rounding up jews later. To avoid rounding up the jews you... create a government that doesn't round up jews. You don't fight arbitraty useful tools which then end up in bizarre situations like in US where people can't vote because of this bizarre idea that government sho…

Yup, "just don't do that, then" is better.

But I have to point out that NL gov did not round up jews, but the bad outcome arrived anyway, from outside the system. So in the example we're talking about, that was not a solution.

Other than that, I agree.

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