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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#61

Post by Anoian »

trashb wrote: post #55
shevy-java wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they could change the laws to force people into slavery here, e. g. by forcing them to use US corporations ("if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society"). In that case they see age sniffing as ultimate tool of spying on everyone, so this is probably the real goal. What we all can see is that this has never been about children - they are just abused as the red hering here.

> "if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society" It would be a difficult choice but would it really be so bad to be excluded from such a society? Don't a lot of people from silicon valley dream to be farmers in the wildlands?

This highly depends on your world view. If you don't care about people or society, then yes you can be right. I, for one, want to be part of society.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#62

Post by choo-t »

pibaker wrote: post #42
choo-t wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can (and should) be mad at the government and at Roblox at the same time. Also, don't use Roblox, you can freely share games made with PICO-8, Löve, Godot, Rpgmaker, Game maker and the like, no need to go to the hell scape that is Roblox and its dark patern and locked down ecosystem.

None of the engines you mentioned are nearly as approachable as roblox when it comes to making a 3D game with little programming or art skills. Don't get me wrong. I agree roblox is a very shady operation, but that does not erase the fact that their platform is unmatched when it comes to letting kids make games.

RpgMaker is really approachable for a 13yo.

There also Luanti, the new name of MineTest, which is closer to the Roblox experience (in the sense that there already a playable game there, and creating new stuff is closing to modding than to game making).

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#63

Post by jstummbillig »

em500 wrote: post #45
skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

Government issued versus corporate issued age verification is a false dichotomy. There are other options, such as refusing games that require them. (Yes, we do have a teen, and yes we did exactly that with Roblox.)

Pretending that those options are equal is a false dichotomy. Not participating is an option up to a point, and then it is increasingly limiting all other options.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#64

Post by joe_mamba »

em500 wrote: post #45
skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

Government issued versus corporate issued age verification is a false dichotomy. There are other options, such as refusing games that require them. (Yes, we do have a teen, and yes we did exactly that with Roblox.)

>There are other options, such as refusing games that require them.

How about the option of the state not being so tyrannical in meddling about what people anonymously do online in their free time?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#65

Post by mnky9800n »

pjc50 wrote: post #39
skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

> a government supplied app, that’s guaranteed to protect my privacy This is a bit of a 64,000 euro question, though. Look very closely at what the government exemptions for GDPR are.

What are they?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#66

Post by jck86 »

gobip wrote: post #13

Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.

But it is needed to protect the children. The politicians say so, so it has to be true. Being against this is very dangerous to our children and democracy. There is no alternative.

Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. The threat this measure poses to the internet and society is significant, yet it is being pushed through without any substantial debate or push back. This just is not how decent and actual democracies should function. What messed up timeline is this?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#67

Post by iLoveOncall »

sebtron wrote: post #15
iLoveOncall wrote: post #5

I agree with the sentiment but is there even any phone that doesn't run Android (or derivatives) or iOS and that can install modern "apps"?

Why does it have to be a phone? Some people still use tablets, laptops and, believe it or not, desktop PCs.

Tablets would be compatible, and there's absolutely no indication that there won't be a separate system for computers.

It's actually disingenuous to think there won't be. This is a repository for a mobile app only.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#68

Post by snottynose »

lstodd wrote: post #58
tikkabhuna wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the "how to implement" determine whether to implement it? A poor implementation shouldn't be done, but a good implementation could make it simpler for companies to verify the ages of users, limit information passed to companies, offer a quality of life improvement for users.

The question is -- why they even need to verify ages of users. This is not decided, and my take is that they do not.

It's funny, concomittant all this chest beating about representing open societies, democracies, unlike those creepy evil authoritarian states which we don't like, that the EC seems hell bent on proving we can have a police state _just_ as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. This is not how we were supposed to prove that we are better.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#69

Post by trashb »

knorker wrote: post #34
skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

Funny you use Netherlands as a good example, considering that famously, their existing unusually thorough registry was super helpful for the Nazis rounding up jews later. I don't think it's Godwin's Law when you are so spot on, exactly describing the worst case.

Additionally there was a leak of the personal information of covid patients, the official tracking app was not affected as far as I can tell.

However even if the app is secure the storage and handling of the information is a different matter and it has been shown that care is not always taken.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#70

Post by xienze »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #51
xienze wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones are much more ubiquitous than any of those devices. Across all demographics.

Accessibility doesn't end with catering to most people though. Since this will be a prerequisite to communicate online, that simply isn't good enough.

You're under the impression that your concerns matter. What matters is the end game of tying real identity to digital identity.
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