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EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#161

Post by wackget »

_the_inflator wrote: post #160

Hm, I use Facebook twice a year, to thank folks for my b-day greetings and for checking my account. Some with Insta. I am not the least addicted to it. I suspended TikTok, because it is of low value. YouTube is useful - only with the subscription to get rid of all the ads. Sorry, addictive design is once again another strawman. No one forces you to use these crappy apps. Same with the iPhone. Need free time? iPhone w…

Replace "Facebook" with "heroin" in your argument and see how ridiculous you sound.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#162

Post by mc32 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #149
mc32 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a bit harder to find stuff in a magazine that helps troubleshoot a water pump at night…

That information used to come with the water pump

How many people keep those docs around? It’s also easier to search on YT than rifle though the pump manual which may include all failure modes…

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#163

Post by tough »

wackget wrote: post #161
_the_inflator wrote: post #160

Hm, I use Facebook twice a year, to thank folks for my b-day greetings and for checking my account. Some with Insta. I am not the least addicted to it. I suspended TikTok, because it is of low value. YouTube is useful - only with the subscription to get rid of all the ads. Sorry, addictive design is once again another strawman. No one forces you to use these crappy apps. Same with the iPhone. Need free time? iPhone w…

Replace "Facebook" with "heroin" in your argument and see how ridiculous you sound.

Doing heroin twice a year doesn't sound that bad

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#164

Post by intended »

xoac wrote: post #31
Frieren wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> good luck forcing Meta When I was a kid there were fines for factories that polluted water. Most of the time they were not found out, and when they did they just paid the fine that it was cheaper than to solve the problem. Regulations changed, factories that polluted water got closed until they fixed the problem. Most factory owners fear the regulation, they are extremely pro-active to avoid breaking the law becaus…

Exactly. If social media apps had a configurable old style non-algorithmic feed the problem would be dramatically smaller.

People prefer the more engaging option, based on testing when preferences are offered.

You aren’t really putting a fair choice here. A product that is tested and refined to be viscerally attractive to our brains, vs will power.

This means you have the illusion of individual choice, with practical addiction at scale.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#165

Post by fallingbananna »

netsharc wrote: post #159
hiire wrote: post #156

I truly hope something is done about this. I just came back from a nice short bath at the beach, where a family had their towels set a few meters away from mine. While I was laying there, relaxing, I saw two kids begging their dad to accompany them into the water, while their dad watched Reels and ignored them completely. Not even a response. The kids just wanted to have a fun afternoon and play in the water, but the…

Man, that age means you're "conscious" life had smartphone/social media in it, according to this (1), if you're born 1999 or later (it's a report from 2012 and mentions teens 13-17), your teenage years probably involved smartphones/social media. As someone older, I wonder what it must be like to grow up since childhood in a world where socializing is done a lot on Facebook/IG comment sections, as well as chasing like…

To me it felt no different from socialising nowadays as an adult.

Some weren’t on social networks at all, and thus missed out on some of the socialising. But also saved themselves from many cringey trends, FOMO, etc.

While some others were on social media 24/7 and basically acted like early influencers.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#166

Post by PeterStuer »

hiire wrote: post #156

I truly hope something is done about this. I just came back from a nice short bath at the beach, where a family had their towels set a few meters away from mine. While I was laying there, relaxing, I saw two kids begging their dad to accompany them into the water, while their dad watched Reels and ignored them completely. Not even a response. The kids just wanted to have a fun afternoon and play in the water, but the…

100% agree, with the slight nuance that the EU would not care 1-bit if the dad was scrolling EU propaganda.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#167

Post by intended »

pembrook wrote: post #155
jampekka wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is an institution protecting us from commercial interests. The government also protects against e.g. abject poverty and dying of easily treatable medical conditions. And also upholds e.g. property rights, which you probably hold absolutely necessary. Society works on balance of power. The government is part of that balance. Ideally the government serves the interests of people, that's the democracy par…

Yes and commercial entities aren’t some absolute evil constantly repressing us either. Both government and private entities have checks on their power in the form of voting (government) or in the case of commercial entities, the market itself (voting with your dollar). Both entities can and do abuse their power. However, only one group is always granted a monopoly and legally allowed to force you to comply and buy th…

Your model has a major gap in it.

Markets don’t come into existence ex nihilo. They come into existence by regulation setting the rules to ensure that the system works for humans.

You have nothing without regulation and government power, setting up the rules and enforcing them.

Further, when we look at the merits of the case which is driving this entire conversation, Meta acted in a manner that most people would consider evil.

And the market is rewarding them for it.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#168

Post by alightsoul »

Noaidi wrote: post #135
alightsoul wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice already exists: migrate to bluesky, pinksky, mastodon, pixelfed. Create repost bots to start the network effect with content from Instagram. Clearly label the repost bots and choose accounts that aren't reposted yet.

Don't you get it? No one is on those sites because they are not addictive. It is like trying top tell an alcoholic to just drink mocktails.

Chicken or egg problem: if you migrate, you become a hermit.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#169

Post by littlecranky67 »

eleventen wrote: post #83
littlecranky67 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online advertisements should be forbidden as a whole. The attention-stealing and engagement-maximising internet with all it horribly effects only exist, due to advertising. And we know that the world without online ads is perfectly possible and livable, since we all lived through 1996.

This is a wild take. Most serious media companies would collapse without online ad revenue. Google would be dead, along with all the products that sorta run the world like maps. But even local publications, like your independent city news site, which you presumably think is good, also die instantly. The ladder is also pulled up behind any kind of independent quality content producers. You cant run a successful channe…

They wouldnt be dead, everbody would use subscription and they could easily afford them because stuff would be cheaper.

The biggest misconception that average people can’t get their head around is that all ads are being paid for by themselves - the consumer. Meta and Google offer nothing for free to you, you are paying for their services everytime you buy a Coke, a car, or a Levis pant, or … anything.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#170

Post by littlecranky67 »

mc32 wrote: post #79
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…and nothing of value would be lost.

Mostly true but there are a few good channels with very practical information for picking up new skills (gardening, woodwork, playing an instrument, etc) as well as looking up troubleshooting information. Those too would be lost. Sure some drag out three minutes into fifteen, but whatever…

Nothing would be lost, it would just be somewhere else. Meta and Google monopolized content and ads.

We had the usenet, irc, ftp and small hobbiest websites long before those companies existed. It actually helps if you can remember 1996 or maybe 1998.

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