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EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#151

Post by koe123 »

tancop wrote: post #105

this is the wrong approach. they should enforce a choice between addictive and "ethical" algorithms (or even better allow third party feeds), make them transparent with what kind of data they use to personalize and strictly ban any kind of political bias. things like bluesky fyp should always stay legal and not in a gray area. even if someone comes up with a design thats more addictive than hard drugs people should h…

> more addictive than hard drugs people should have the option

This seems like a hot take given the (justifiably) illegality of stuff like fentanyl.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#152

Post by twoodfin »

amelius wrote: post #92
eleventen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a wild take. Most serious media companies would collapse without online ad revenue. Google would be dead, along with all the products that sorta run the world like maps. But even local publications, like your independent city news site, which you presumably think is good, also die instantly. The ladder is also pulled up behind any kind of independent quality content producers. You cant run a successful channe…

Did you not read: > And we know that the world without online ads is perfectly possible and livable, since we all lived through 1996. We're in an information crisis. Most people don't know what is true or false anymore. Google and Meta didn't make it better and in fact might have contributed to it. I'd say let's go back to 1996.

Real household median income in the US has risen by more than 25% since 1996, largely driven by technology built for and by the ecosystem you want to pull out by the roots.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

That would be a staggering cut to everyone’s standard of living.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#153

Post by Geee »

tancop wrote: post #105

this is the wrong approach. they should enforce a choice between addictive and "ethical" algorithms (or even better allow third party feeds), make them transparent with what kind of data they use to personalize and strictly ban any kind of political bias. things like bluesky fyp should always stay legal and not in a gray area. even if someone comes up with a design thats more addictive than hard drugs people should h…

Addiction is exactly what laws should be fighting, be it social media, drugs, or something else. In a free market, people should be free to choose where they spend their time and money, but people aren't free if they're addicted. Addiction causes them to spend their time and money on things which they wouldn't consent to, if it weren't for addiction. For Instagram, the harm is the lost time, and whatever else they could have done with that time. Addictive stuff disrupts the whole market / society, not just the individual.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#154

Post by upboundspiral »

twoodfin wrote: post #152
amelius wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not read: > And we know that the world without online ads is perfectly possible and livable, since we all lived through 1996. We're in an information crisis. Most people don't know what is true or false anymore. Google and Meta didn't make it better and in fact might have contributed to it. I'd say let's go back to 1996.

Real household median income in the US has risen by more than 25% since 1996, largely driven by technology built for and by the ecosystem you want to pull out by the roots. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N That would be a staggering cut to everyone’s standard of living.

assuming 2% inflation over 30 years, that means that a dollar in 1996 is now worth $1.81. 80% depreciation versus 25% increase in income is not comparable.

The wealth inequality in the past 30 years has dramatically shifted in favor of the ultra rich.

Technology has been used to create illegal monopolies -> too big to fail -> surely we can't / don't need to regulate this -> tech companies get away with murder and laugh all the way to the bank.

A company like Meta could finesse their algorythms to bias people against antitrust action and you would never know.

To repeat the talking point of tech companies that "technology has helped us, therefore we should not regulate it in any way" is to accept the premise of people that spend every waking hour of their day figuring out what they can get away with to screw you over.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#155

Post by pembrook »

jampekka wrote: post #143
pembrook wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you grant the government more control over the world to supposedly “protect” you, unfortunately those powers aren’t always wielded by people you would have voted for. But this is often fine if there’s real harm there. Eliminating the harm often outweighs the risk of centralized abuse of power. But when the harms you’re supposedly protecting against aren’t actually real (the social media hysteria is a classic mor…

The government is an institution protecting us from commercial interests. The government also protects against e.g. abject poverty and dying of easily treatable medical conditions. And also upholds e.g. property rights, which you probably hold absolutely necessary. Society works on balance of power. The government is part of that balance. Ideally the government serves the interests of people, that's the democracy par…

Yes and commercial entities aren’t some absolute evil constantly repressing us either.

Both government and private entities have checks on their power in the form of voting (government) or in the case of commercial entities, the market itself (voting with your dollar). Both entities can and do abuse their power.

However, only one group is always granted a monopoly and legally allowed to force you to comply and buy their products at gunpoint (government).

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#156

Post by hiire »

I truly hope something is done about this. I just came back from a nice short bath at the beach, where a family had their towels set a few meters away from mine. While I was laying there, relaxing, I saw two kids begging their dad to accompany them into the water, while their dad watched Reels and ignored them completely. Not even a response.

The kids just wanted to have a fun afternoon and play in the water, but the dad was just scrolling, didn't care at all about his surroundings, probably in the zombie state that these platforms let you in. The kids ended up running to the water on their own, the dad didn't react at all to the situation, zero response (to be fair, I'm not saying he should be alarmed or anything, just a "yeah, go ahead" would've been fine).

I may be exaggerating but I really think that these platforms are the tobacco of these decades, I used to be really addicted as a teen as well, now I'm 23 and left most of the platforms for good. Seeing people act like this, even in my group of friends, makes me feel quite weird about the whole situation.

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#159

Post by netsharc »

hiire wrote: post #156

I truly hope something is done about this. I just came back from a nice short bath at the beach, where a family had their towels set a few meters away from mine. While I was laying there, relaxing, I saw two kids begging their dad to accompany them into the water, while their dad watched Reels and ignored them completely. Not even a response. The kids just wanted to have a fun afternoon and play in the water, but the…

Man, that age means you're "conscious" life had smartphone/social media in it, according to this (1), if you're born 1999 or later (it's a report from 2012 and mentions teens 13-17), your teenage years probably involved smartphones/social media.

As someone older, I wonder what it must be like to grow up since childhood in a world where socializing is done a lot on Facebook/IG comment sections, as well as chasing likes for self-worth.

1) https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2012/young-adults-and-teens...

Re: EU Commission: addictive design Instagram and Facebook in breach of the DSA

#160

Post by _the_inflator »

Hm, I use Facebook twice a year, to thank folks for my b-day greetings and for checking my account. Some with Insta.

I am not the least addicted to it. I suspended TikTok, because it is of low value.

YouTube is useful - only with the subscription to get rid of all the ads.

Sorry, addictive design is once again another strawman. No one forces you to use these crappy apps. Same with the iPhone.

Need free time? iPhone will serve you. All Icons colorless? iPhone!

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

There is a problem, if you see people being sucked into their smartphones - however, you cannot have one without the other. Many public services require a smartphone. Where is the alternative?

It is human nature, that's all. Fighting Facebook is so low, absolutely low.

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