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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#651
post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They joined verein but didn't notice it's two years contract with auto renewal, cancellation three months in advance by letter. Left the country after receiving Mahnbescheid. Have fun in this asshole-verein.

2y? sounds like some fitness sth scam. not the real thing. no clubs, where people share their hobby.

Every service provider and every membership in Germany.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is EU doesn't do deportations and instead showers illegals with welfare I don't even know how to begin to respond to such nonsense.

These numbers suggest there’s something to what they’re saying: https://www.statista.com/chart/30675/third-country-nationals...

That doesn't talk about showering illegals with welfare. And yes, deportation is hard when the target countries are not cooperating.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#653

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

What other country looks appealing? I get the whole “speak the native language” but seems like the appealing countries speak a language most of the world doesn’t care about. The number of countries with English as the main/official language that are desirable and open to immigrants seems really small.

I was under the impression that English speaking countries are by far the most desirable for immigrants.

Most people don't care that the current US, or UK governments are a mess, because grass isn't exactly greener back at home.

And there are quite a few more English speaking countries that have their own issues, but don't get so much negative press online. (Ireland and Canada have housing crisis, but sound fine otherwise. Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand surely have their own issues that I don't know about)

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#654

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

> Story 2: In an international working environment, German may not matter much at the IC level. But I’ve seen countless situations where Germans exchange a glance with each other, and suddenly the final decision is not what was agreed upon in the meeting. Over time, I’ve learned that there are many unwritten rules behind the scenes, and when you speak their language, you start to understand them. I mean, how many CEO…

I live in Austria, and from my experience it's the higher management that is almost exclusively native Austrians. But the highest (C-level) and lowest (IC-level) staff is international.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requirement for becoming a Frenchman The discussion is about permanent residence, not citizenship. Permanent residence allows eg an employee be able to continue staying in a country without being dependent on a particular employer and having to reapply everytime they change jobs. It is gives a person who works in a country for a certain amount of time already, paying taxes etc, having the same rights as an employee…

If someone wants to be a permanent resident of a country and build their life there, they should have to plan to eventually become a citizen of that country. To allow otherwise leads to its destruction, just people with no long term skin in the game extracting before moving on. It is a huge conflict of interest among the population. Its like having a corporation where half the owners want a quick return and exist and…

Extraction is a weird way to put it. Usually, immigrants, especially skilled workers, are overwhelmingly net contributors. That's part of why modern economies want them so badly.

It's actually the perfect opposite, a skilled worker who plans to leave is a burden on their home country as they presumably will use services there they never paid for. Hopefully, in developed nations this balances out more or less. In undeveloped nations there's not much of a system to take advantage of.

I live in a country I was not born in, I pay taxes as much as anyone else and pay into social security programs I'll likely never get to use. The state did not have to spend a penny to educate me. If I return to my home country without having worked there another day in my life, I'm probably quite the net loss to them.

The extraction phase of your life is overwhelmingly being a child or elderly.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#656
post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that relates to the C2/C1/B2 conversation in which way?

Presumably they are excluding non-native Germans using difficult German language requirements? Tbh I wish my current employer had higher (or any) English language requirements. It makes meetings (especially video calls which is all of them) significantly harder when you have to decode heavily Indian English as well as understand highly complex technical discussions.

I get you, but credentialism is an issue in general - the best AWS expert isn't usually the one with the most certs. Likewise I don't have any sort of advanced English or German cert. I have B2 in both, but my German is a lot worse now, but at my best I had no trouble interacting with my German coworkers or society in general.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#657
post #336

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

How do you live 6 years in a country without reaching B1?

You don't magically get language skills by living in the country. You still have to put in the time and effort.

The utmost basics, A1, you could learn very quickly and those will get you through basic interactions (buying groceries, greeting neighbors, etc.)

At work, doctors, apartment search etc. you can use English.

For contracts you can use translate, since B1 wouldn't get you far there anyway.

But to get to B1, you would have to make language learning your hobby for at least a year... and that is not for everyone. Especially given that there aren't interesting media to immerse yourself into in German, compared to other languages like Japanese or Korean.

The only thing that I find puzzling is that OP didn't learn it, when they plan to stay in the country and obtain permanent residency. I would understand not learning the language if they planned to move out in 1 year.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#658

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

It's the same in the Netherlands (needing a minimum language level), I suspect it's 25+ years of right-leaning, anti-migration governments; as a compromise they said "foreigners can stay as long as they integrate into our society", and language is a big factor there. Or that is the claim anyway.

This doesn't apply to higher end jobs though, which are almost always international to begin with.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#659
post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you say to people that literally can’t? I still can’t pronounce about a third of the Vietnamese sounds. I’ve had three private in person tutors, no luck. Should I just like pack up my bags and leave?

You're not entitled to live in Vietnam. If the Vietnamese people want you to speak Vietnamese and you can't, then yes you should leave.

“Rules for thee but not for me”

That is kinda the point of the article, countries create these arbitrary rules to prevent people that create value in their society from permanently participating.

Whats slightly ironic is you don't have to speak Vietnamese, even raised in a Vietnamese home, or have Vietnamese parents to have Vietnamese citizenship. Many racially Vietnamese students attending international school only know English, because English is spoken exclusively at home and their school.

Or if you're Hmong, you might not know Vietnamese, but can hold a Vietnamese passport.

Same situation in the USA where many Americans couldn't pass our citizenship test.

Washington State is grappling with this issue now: we have very wealthy people that created a lot of wealth for themselves while residing in the state, and now are taking it to Florida, due to the Washingtonians voting to increase taxes on wealthy people.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#660
post #569
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when I vacationed in Bayern (Bavaria), a lot of people switched to English when they realized that my German wasn't that good. Which was frustrating, because I wanted to practice speaking with native speakers. Although, there were also people who only spoke German.

If you want to learn you just pretend that you don’t speak English and keep on speaking German. They will switch back fast.

This is the right way. Speak the language you want. Even if they reply to you in English, and they know you can speak English, continue in German. They will understand. They switch to English because they want to be helpful. If you continue in German they understand you prefer it that way.

Another thing is that once you start talking with a person (who you meet on a regular basis) in one language, it is hard to switch to another language at a later date. So if you start with English, it is hard to go back to German. But if you start with German, even if it is less fluent for you, it will come natural that with that person you speak in German.

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