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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#441

Post by aleph_minus_one »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #435
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can only speculate, but usually when such phrases come up, it's about things like not being part of the in-group - people they know throwing parties and not inviting them, etc. Concerning "part of the in-group": It is very usual that in Germany, you don't become a "friend" fast (the German translation of "friend", [der] Freund, has a much deeper meaning than the US-American understanding of the English word). Fri…

> If you do shallow smalltalk (as it is very common in the USA), you signal that you only want a shallow relationship. That sounds like an extremely obnoxious judgement. > If you want a deep friendship, better bring something deep to the table. At some point sure. Are you suggesting launching into deep conversation when you meet someone?

> Are you suggesting launching into deep conversation when you meet someone?

I am strongly suggesting not to start with shallow smalltalk, as it is common in the USA.

I would start with serious conversations when I meet someone to get a feeling. But if the "vibe" is right, you can indeed get deep rather soon.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#442

Post by annzabelle »

Exoristos wrote: post #334
chis wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting divide. "German" is both an ethnicity and a citizenship, and it's possible to become one but not the other. "American" on the other hand is purely a citizenship, and so it is possible to become an American after immigrating.

> "American" on the other hand is purely a citizenship ... This may be how you perceive or feel about it, and of course you're not alone, but many other Americans feel differently. Those of us with Colonial ancestors maintained much the same culture and mores for generations; it's evident in the manners and the literature; it's something distinct that we certainly feel as close to an ethnicity. Granted, we comprise m…

There has always been some concept of a process by which people can become American and join in that culture through assimilation and integration.

I've had ancestors in North America since 1650, including a vice president and a union admiral, but I also have friends whose parents arrived from Somalia or Vietnam in the eighties and nineties who grew up in largely the same cultural soup I did, speak with the same accent, have the same humor, drink the same beer and eat the same food. Some have served in the US military. In my eyes, they're just as American as I am.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#443

Post by senordevnyc »

vanviegen wrote: post #404
joe_mamba wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In reality, what they are is just better at hiding their racism and xenophobia. It's not xenofobia, it's just a rigid caste system with little to no upward mobility for immigrants, setup for the economic benefit of the locals at the expense of most immigrants. Sweden and others for example has no inheritance taxes so locals inheriting property and assets get a massive leg up at advancing in society with little effor…

> The difference is EU doesn't do deportations and instead showers illegals with welfare I don't even know how to begin to respond to such nonsense.

These numbers suggest there’s something to what they’re saying: https://www.statista.com/chart/30675/third-country-nationals...

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#444

Post by bellowsgulch »

BeetleB wrote: post #401
bellowsgulch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are notable issues in the Southwest in the United States where people don't speak any English at all, and speak only Spanish, suggesting they are legal citizens born of illegal immigrants, or are still illegal immigrants themselves.

I don't doubt they speak only Spanish, but this is the part I contest: > There are notable issues What are the issues? Which (English speaking) Americans have been so negatively impacted because of this, and how? I don't live in the Southwest, but we have them here as well. They speak little/no English. Yet both they and the people around them live just fine.

“I don’t experience what others experience so it’s not a problem.”

Are you still in your 20s?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#445

Post by torginus »

froh wrote: post #122
probably_wrong wrote: post #48

I migrated to Germany 10+ years ago and I'm still here. Based on my limited experience, there are two big issues. First, things are bad : trains are getting worse every year, the highways are in disrepair (ask me about Bonn!), overloaded doctors, impossibly slow bureaucracy, economic crisis, growing inequality, housing crisis, and so on. If you're a fresh immigrant who cannot find a job in an economic crisis (aka "mo…

there is no certificate higher than C2, so "minimum" C2 is ridicerlus, ackchyually... I assume.thats your point here, but to bystanders: C2 is nearly native speaker language proficiency, nuanced, precise, eloquent. if language production is the job, or impeccable understanding is a must have, like as a psychotherapist, then C2 is a reasonable requirement. in contrast you can study in german language at a German unive…

Germans just love to exclude others based on their 'master race' sentiment - I have had this happen to others in my vicinity, so that's why I know it's not a personal grievance thing.

I had a friend rejected from a job (she was not German but lived in Germany, and spoke the language), as the recruiter told her they are looking only for people from DACH countries becase of some 'data protection laws' that can be enforced there. Since the job was remote, they argued, she could move out of the country at any point in time so she would not be eligible.

(I know this because I had another acquaintance who worked there)

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#447

Post by rjh29 »

delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #413
littlecranky67 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a german living in spain, i feel your pain. While I do speak spanish around B1/B2 level, it took a lot of time and effort - probably the biggest effort in learning something after uni. People are often "you should speak the language if you life there" - yes, agreed. BUT: Hell, if you are a professional entrepreneur, you are already not working 40h week but way more. If in your day job you speak english anyway beca…

None of this people opining “just learn the language” have learned a second language while working as adults, let alone learned German. You can get to A2 level pretty easy (in most indoeuropean languages at least), but jumping to B1 can seriously be a year or more of studying. You have to be able to handle basic daily situations in the given language and understand what is said in a TV or Radio show. With practice yo…

It's not easy. I learned Japanese at 28 and am now proficient. But I didn't want to spend my whole life asking other people to translate things for me, being permanently ostracised from conversations, or causing problems for others by forcing them to speak English. It's basic decency imo.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#448

Post by ryandrake »

justacrow wrote: post #300
ryandrake wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There are many immigrant-majority communities in the USA where you can live most of your day-to-day without needing to speak much English.

Any $200k+ SW engineering jobs?

OP was just talking about "doing basic life things."

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#449

Post by ggm »

ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

An observation from the side, is that this person already speaks 2 languages, and very probably more. They aren't dumb, I do question their logic, but the capacity to speak more than one tongue is in this person, witness their writing in English, and stating they come from an ASEAN background. That means at least one non-english language, and for many ASEAN economies, more than one.

eg Chinese both Manderin and Cantonese, Indonesian and Chinese, some Chinese and Vietnamese, Korean and Chinese, these are combinations I have met at work here in Australia aside from "and english"

I've had lifts from Uber drivers who speak 4 tongues fluently.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#450

Post by push0ret »

gib444 wrote: post #386
push0ret wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's people who don't even live in London who paint completely skewed pictures of the city. It's sad to see how much negative propaganda is being spread to induce fear, uncertainty and doubt. Why are you doing this? Yes, almost everything you mentioned happens. You're probably going to come across some of it if you spend a bit more time here, and in some areas more than others. But you are exaggerating it a…

Present your credentials. I'm from the south of England, my family lives in London, I spend plenty of time in London. I don't need your blessing to criticise the capital of the country I was born in. Are you even British? If not, who the hell do /you/ think you are to accuse me of propaganda? I can tell you're not a native English speaker > in reality these things are sporadic nuisances THIS is the real propaganda

I straight up just live there, can you imagine? Every day!
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