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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#321

Post by Gander5739 »

deejaaymac wrote: post #286
awakeasleep wrote: post #9

Ford has had that since Blue Cruise 2.0, or thereabouts. It really shocked me how often it catches my attention being diverted. Things like talking to my passengers, adjusting the climate controls, or eating- I'm not even talking about 'advanced distractions' like my phone. It also seemed really accurate. I never remember it beeping at me when I was actually paying attention. It's totally plausible to me that this ki…

I would argue that if someone can't safely operate a vehicle without this then maybe they shouldn't have a license

If locks are to keep honest men honest, then driving monitoring cameras are to keep attentive drivers attentive.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#322

Post by hparadiz »

mort96 wrote: post #250
BeetleB wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you turn that feature off? I often complain about the lack of buttons, but my car actually has a dedicated button to turn this safety feature off. IIRC, veering from the lane is the cause of most collisions, so it makes sense to have this.

You can't turn it off, you can temporarily disable it but it gets enabled again the next time you get in the car. Regardless, I feel like maybe "suddenly automatically jerk the steering wheel to drive into oncoming traffic" mode should maybe be off by default? Although it would definitely make me less angry if it could be turned off.

A "feature" like this can easily kill someone in some of the sketchy mountain roads I've been on in Crete.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#323

Post by cpursley »

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #84

I have a 2012 Skoda Yeti, 170000 miles. Serviced every year, never had anything go wrong with it yet. If it starts costing me money I will buy a 2012 Skoda Yeti from Autotrader with 50000 miles on the clock. At my age that should just about do me :)

I have nothing to add other than those are cool vehicles.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#324

Post by mothballed »

afandian wrote: post #304
gotski wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar situation with a rental car, driving on winding roads. The beeping happened periodically as I was driving around hairpin bends, and the eye detection was triggered by me turning my head to look towards the oncoming sharp corner. Not the best situation to have a "safety" alert start chastising you!

I wonder if it’s malicious compliance on the part of the manufacturers. They can trivially determine if their tech is effective. Making it mandatory, despite the problems they must surely know about, might produce some democratic pressure for more nuanced legislation.

Why would the manufacturers care though? You will still buy a car and now the barrier to foreign competition is higher, increasing profit, and the price goes up to pay for the dooo dads which increases financing kickbacks even if margin is same.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#325

Post by belorn »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

The speed sign detection can be a bit funny at times. Mine often read signs that are for roads next to the one I'm driving, which occasionally include train tracks. Seeing a maximum speed that is 200 km/h is a bit funny, through less so when the camera catches a small road parallel with the highway with speeds that's 1/4th that of the highway. If the cruise control would follow those, the first one would be very illegal and the second one quite dangerous and possibly illegal if it got stuck like that. It also has detected a 357 km/h (or around that) while driving in the city, possibly by random patterns from a shop's street window.

The lane assist can also become confused by shadows created by a fence next to the road when the sun is just slightly above the horizon. The car thought I was driving between two roads and tried to steer me to the side, but it was a single lane highway. That was the last time I had it enabled.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#326

Post by a123b456c »

zackify wrote: post #154
aljgz wrote: post #136

New cars are UX nightmares. I'm driving an electric Toyota bz4x. Lovely mechanics, but the general UX (some are because of Android Auto) is terrible. The remote's lock/unlock don't do anything when the car is on. Example: I'm by the trunk and it won't open unless I go back to the driver's door and unlock the doors. App's remote function has too many conditions to do anything. For instance, I'm resting in the back sea…

After seeing kia evs and having a Tesla. Its the only good EV brand because the software from everywhere else is a complete joke. Kia will tell me my doors are unlocked when I'm at home. Tesla has a set home feature. Plus the 50 other annoyances. Regen doesn't even persist with kia. You have to press the paddle to add it every time you start the car. All this to say, the only good ux car anymore is tesla. Too bad the…

Disagree. I have been driving Kia for 2.5 years. I think the UX is quite good.

I would assume that most people who live in a city would want to know when the Kia is unlocked at home. I think your dislike of that feature may reflect your residence type or garage type.

My experience of Tesla UX was poor, given how few manual controls were available, and the extensive touchscreen reliance required while driving.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#327

Post by BeetleB »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #312
BeetleB wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you turn that feature off? I often complain about the lack of buttons, but my car actually has a dedicated button to turn this safety feature off. IIRC, veering from the lane is the cause of most collisions, so it makes sense to have this.

> IIRC, veering from the lane is the cause of most collisions, so it makes sense to have this. My dad's Toyota has this. The issue is it seems to have a hard time actually centering itself in the lane, so it'll just sway from side to side like a drunk driver if the lane is somewhat narrow. And you can forget about driving on secondary roads, which usually don't have markings on the sides. It'll keep trying to drive i…

> My dad's Toyota has this. The issue is it seems to have a hard time actually centering itself in the lane, so it'll just sway from side to side like a drunk driver if the lane is somewhat narrow.

Newer cars (or other cars) do a better job of this. Mine doesn't do the ping pong - it really does keep it centered.

However, the point is that it should direct you back into the lane and you're supposed to take over. If it's ping ponging, it's because you as the driver are letting it.

> Then there's the collision detection thing. It's basically guaranteed to beep at me whenever I enter my parents' narrow street with cars parked on both sides.

Is this detecting at the corners and not the front? For example, my old 2016 car has collision detection, but it will only detect if something is in front of you head on. With my newer car, it's checking the corners. Still, I get the warning only when parking. And I can turn it off.

> But I'm not convinced these systems are that useful if people get used to ignoring them.

Agreed. I think some manufacturers do a better job than others, though.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#328

Post by ang_cire »

mrtksn wrote: post #306
ang_cire wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is a slippery slope argument. "New government mandate paves way for additional government mandate" is about as straightforward a slippery slope argument as you can get. Slippery slope arguments don't require the eventual fear (e.g. cameras recording you) to be present in the current form, otherwise it wouldn't be a slope .

There are no camera requirements and if cameras are used they are prohibited from using them for the stuff the article implies because the privacy is protected by GDPR. Remember how US corporations really hate EU regulations? Yes that's the regulation preventing them from processing your face even if the system is implemented with a camera.

You either didn't read my comment, or aren't groking it.

Whether there are cameras mandated now is irrelevant. The framework that accepts government-mandated ADDW is now in place. Most makers are fulfilling it by using cameras, whether required to or not.

Future enhancements to how ADDW is enforced (such as mandatory cameras), is now a much smaller hurdle for them to overcome.

Also, as the other commenter pointed out, you don't understand GDPR (or at least, how it affects US companies).

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#329

Post by derf_ »

altern8 wrote: post #156
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Same here. I drive a 1991 Honda Prelude and I don't think I'll want to drive anything else probably ever.

I drove an '89 Prelude (with a carburetor!) that had been used hard before I acquired it, until it left me stranded by the side of the road one too many times. I am happy to report that a 2000 Acura Integra is a very reasonable upgrade. Basically the same car, except better (fuel injection, ABS brakes, airbags, etc.). The only thing I miss is that the Prelude had a tighter turning radius.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#330

Post by 2III7 »

throw0101d wrote: post #52

I have a manual 2003 Golf TDI (purchased in 2003; has a tape deck!) that's slowly rusting, and I'm not looking forward to when I have to replace it. I don't have a garage/drive way, and so have to park on the street, which makes me leans towards another short [1] vehicle: currently thinking about VW Golf, Mazda 3, Mazda CX-30, Kia Niro. From what I've seen from almost all cars, lots more screens and lots fewer button…

Just get a golf 6 or 7 (can be had without any of the nanny features).
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