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Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#221

Post by dataflow »

bialpio wrote: post #162
weberer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install…

I just moved to Portugal and had zero issues installing a portable unit to help me survive the heatwave. For the hinged windows you just grab an installation kit that works with them and you're good to go. The only problem is that the portable AC I got is not a window unit (& it's single-hose), but I wanted to have it before the heatwave started and don't care too much about few percentage points in lost efficiency a…

I'm actually surprised you were fine with single-hose. I've never seen a single-hose portable A/C unit that did an adequate job. AIUC, the laws of physics make that rather difficult. In fact I've sometimes seen them actively make things worse. Whereas I have seen dual-hose do an adequate job.

Also note, "survive" is a rather low bar. We're talking about encouraging some of the world's top researchers to move from the US across the ocean. I'm admittedly not in their shoes, but I imagine mere survival isn't their criterion.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#222

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #206
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of a silly question. Can you name a single country like the US? Have you read your own history? I said the reaffirmation was not impressive, not the amendment or the nature of said citizenship itself. The fact it had to be reaffirmed is not impressive. The OP I replied to already acknowledged this. Please read more carefully next time. Or if you think the reaffirmation was itself impressive, please just say so.

>Sort of a silly question. Can you name a single country like the US? Have you read your own history? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, exactly. The US is not the only country which offers birthright citizenship. But I don't believe there are any other countries like this in Europe or Asia. >I said the reaffirmation was not impressive, not the amendment or the nature of said citizenship itself. The…

It's not about the last word. Just make a decent argument. There's nothing personal here. I actually hope to be corrected. That would be interesting. I don't hold anything against you.

As to your actual question, the reason is because they brought up the reaffirmation. Those were their words. As such, I gave it weight because they did - that was the point I was responding to.

As to the first part of your reply, I think it's very interesting actually. Birthright citizenship may not be exclusive to the United States, but it is relatively uncommon. The unique history of the United States plays a big part in this. This also does not automatically mean that the United States is a better place for immigrants today. One counterpoint is how it makes many of the debates around American immigration have a distinctly racial or cultural nature as nativist elements of the population want to find ways to control who can be born here. Of course it's not like those debates don't also happen elsewhere. No place is perfect.

I'm just pushing back against the self satisfaction of the OP I was replying to. These things are nuanced. I apologize if in my zeal to pushback I made you upset. Have a good day.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#223

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

skeledrew wrote: post #43
em500 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not too different for ethnic Chinese researchers, of which there are a lot in American STEM departments.

Chinese are far more open to working in foreign environments/contexts that Americans are, IMO. Just look at the foreign language learning statistics: most Americans tend to only know English, unless their family was fairly recently from a non-English speaking country. Meanwhile the Chinese landing in the US tend to already have decent English education, and dive right into doing what they're there to do.

Given that English is a global lingua franca this hardly seems like a useful comparison.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#224

Post by LastTrain »

ericmay wrote: post #30
vincnetas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you call paying someone legally a "bribe" ?

In the US we sometimes use the term “bribe” in morally neutral or even positive situations. It just means giving someone money or a different incentive to convince them to do something they weren’t going to do or were undecided but considering doing and the extra incentive is the catalyst for making the decision. We also have the legal concept of a bribe but the OP probably wasn’t using it in the legal sense - I.e. a…

No we don’t.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#225

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

vrganj wrote: post #115
drstewart wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe needs Americans to decouple from America. Got it.

Everybody is welcome to contribute to the free world, be they American or not.

Interestingly some Europeans also feel that Europe is becoming less free and are fleeing to the US:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/anti-greta-activist-flees-euro...

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#226

Post by [deleted] »

ericmay wrote: post #219
nyeah wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes. But bribery is also a crime, so using that word invites comment.

It's called slang in the United States. Someone might say "dang they absolutely murdered that slice (I'm watching Wimbledon right now)". Nobody thinks well murdering is a crime, I need to go and comment on how the word murder is used inappropriately here.

[deleted]

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#227

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

BeetleB wrote: post #220
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you apologize for that? Name one claim I've made that is impeached by your "experience"? Doubtless many others have shared your experiences. Good for you. It's not really the point. My questions as to the OP I was responding to of a personal nature were quite obviously rhetorical. The point was to perhaps suggest some introspection. Not everyone's experiences are the same. The more substantive questions hav…

> Doubtless many others have shared your experiences. Good for you. It's not really the point. You have made multiple statements questioning his reality: > I just don't really buy it. For someone who lived overseas the narrowness of your perspective is rather alarming. > Have you ever lived overseas? Honestly you sound delusional. > This pretty much confirms you have never lived overseas lol. I'm pointing out that hi…

Fair enough. To be clear, these were made mostly in jest, in response to similarly assertive language made by the OP, which I guess you identified with. I certainly may be overly optimistic about Americans going overseas and learning some humility. But it's not like this is the first time I've been disappointed in this manner. Oh well.

I'm still curious if the OP acknowledges that some countries may make it easier to be a "foreign worker" vs a "citizen" and whether that has any value. I don't take these debates personally. I think the question of foreign worker vs immigrant could be an interesting one. Have a nice day!

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#228

Post by WarmWash »

pjerem wrote: post #201
WarmWash wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. You feel that way because the media (and the internet) is hyper focused on the bottom 50% of Americans. The households with 2 people earning If you look at the higher brackets (you have to look because "Americans in the 75th percentile live great" is not a clickable story) America is a better place to live if you work a…

Sorry but I don't share your view. A society where the bottom 50% can't live a decent life is just dysfunctional. I don't care which country is best for the riches (and actually, Europe is good for the riches), I care that the economy is there to allow everyone to live a decent and meaningful life.

The issue is that "decent life" is a benchmark that (besides being subjective) is set relatively rather than absolutely.

So being in the bottom 50% in the US sucks when you look around your country, but is actually pretty "decent" when you look around your planet.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#229

Post by bialpio »

dataflow wrote: post #221
bialpio wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just moved to Portugal and had zero issues installing a portable unit to help me survive the heatwave. For the hinged windows you just grab an installation kit that works with them and you're good to go. The only problem is that the portable AC I got is not a window unit (& it's single-hose), but I wanted to have it before the heatwave started and don't care too much about few percentage points in lost efficiency a…

I'm actually surprised you were fine with single-hose. I've never seen a single-hose portable A/C unit that did an adequate job. AIUC, the laws of physics make that rather difficult. In fact I've sometimes seen them actively make things worse. Whereas I have seen dual-hose do an adequate job. Also note, "survive" is a rather low bar. We're talking about encouraging some of the world's top researchers to move from the…

I had single-hose both when I lived in USA and now, and didn't have any issues with it cooling down the room I wanted to have cooled down. My bar is "survival of my pets" because rabbits supposedly can't handle more than 25C. Their room stayed well below that temperature both in USA (Seattle suburbs, west-facing in a house that wasn't insulated) and now in Portugal.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#230

Post by mrguyorama »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #58
est31 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy. Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Europe's problems: * active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)…

> Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Both Japan and South Korea were equally devastated and yet they managed to build world-class technology industries in the subsequent decades. I think the problems with Europe and the EU are a lot deeper than that.

The world runs on Siemens, Bosch, Rolls Royce, Bayer. Even adversarial countries buy German Marine Diesels for their warships. Europe makes better warships than the US, who has spent the last 40 years twiddling it's thumbs and can no longer make modern frigates apparently, and prefers to spend it's naval efforts on the Tsar's moronic toy boat.

Unilever makes up half of the non-food items in your grocery store. Nestle makes up half the food items.

Novartis played a huge part in the Covid vaccines and also is just a giant medicine company in general. Novo Nordisk should be familiar to you.

ThyssenKrupp. It's twice the size of US Steel, which recently had to be sold to a US subsidiary of Nippon Steel because they sucked ass at keeping up with the times.

Britain makes better gas turbines than China and Russia for example. Europe reliably produces top tier weapons systems and infrastructure, competitive with American, often surpassing American systems currently. Thales, BAE, Airbus, Saab, Rheinmetal. The US Abrams tank uses a clone of a German gun. The Bradley is a BAE design. The US has always loved using European produced and designed large guns, such as from Oerlikon or Bofors, because they are always world class. Most of their military industry is.

Michelin tyres is a french company.

A lot of these names survived WW2. Thinking Europe doesn't know how to build big stuff, important stuff, etc, they seem to do a better job than the US at maintaining essential industry talent and continuation of industry. By value and jobs, the automotive industry facing competition will struggle, but Europe survived the rise of Japanese automakers far far better than US automakers did, primarily because they didn't just sit back and twiddle their thumbs for decades as the rest of the world advanced. Well, okay, Britain automakers struggled, but that's a good thing.

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