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Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#101

Post by weberer »

pjerem wrote: post #79
dataflow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there. You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered. It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is wh…

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe

Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#102

Post by Levitz »

fakedang wrote: post #92
Levitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether China is immigration friendly or not is debatable. Compared to the US or Europe? No it's not debatable. No dual citizenship at all, most probably no citizenship. Harder residency. Good luck bringing family there. Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors.

I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it? Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors. You're allowed to take your family along wi…

>I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it?

Because it's an important matter regarding immigration. If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining?

>Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors.

None of which is related to immigration.

>You're allowed to take your family along with you too, and the language barrier doesn't translate in the professional setting. >Racism is a non-issue since I doubt these researchers will even be interacting with elements of that segment of Chinese Han society, unless they choose to.

Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?

This just reads like deeply, deeply delusional reasoning attempting to paint China as a good alternative.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#103

Post by doctorwho42 »

jltsiren wrote: post #95
doctorwho42 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any how much available funding is there in the EU? One of the reasons that so many researchers come to the US, even with our decline in research funding over the last 30 years, is because the US makes available so much God damn funding in comparison to any western world. The reason China is starting to outstrip the US? Because they are starting to surpass the US in funding. The only downside I have heard from Chinese…

Because there is less competition for jobs and grants. Europe spends more on academic research (as a fraction of GDP) than the US, but there are more people competing for the funding.

Are you sure about that? Most people miss the fact that a sizeable % of our military budget is slated for research grants/funding.

I'm a physicist in academia, and the amount of money we have gotten from DoD branches for things that have no immediate military applications is like 40-60% of our budget YoY. Like for straight fundamental physics research.

Most scientists I know who have gone to Europe have had to go into the private sector. And the famous ones I work with have gotten like blank check $10M offers from max planck and directorships with guaranteed $1m/yr funding, and still turned them down.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#104

Post by dataflow »

wolvoleo wrote: post #99
dataflow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the…

...what are you talking about? This was from my personal experience being in Europe many times, including in the middle of this very last heat wave. This one thing made it miserable. I couldn't even sleep and had to move to other buildings more than once. On more than one occasion locals themselves told me there were legal reasons certain buildings couldn't have A/C, despite them wanting to install it. And it from people there that I heard - several times - about the deaths when I complained about the lack of A/C, not from right-wing US media! I had no idea Republicans were even talking about this until your comment!

I'm not even blaming Europe for having so little A/C - more power to them for being able to handle the heat with less impact on climate change; they have my approval! I'm just saying if you're expecting Americans to immigrate there, this seems like a very real obstacle. That's all.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#105

Post by tremon »

karagenit wrote: post #93
est31 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been to China either. It's a huge country and it probably depends on where you are (hong kong probably friendlier than a random place in the mainland), but from what I heard/read: * language issues. Many chinese don't speak english. Also a problem in many european countries (esp latin and slavic speaking ones), but at least the european languages are easier to learn. Compare this to Amsterdam, Goteborg, Be…

Tangent, but I’m really curious what country you’re from that uses the endonym for Göteborg but then also spells the capital of Denmark like Kopenhagen?

I'm pretty certain all languages do that. It's fairly common to bastardize/assimilate the names of important cities and/or trade hubs into the local language, but leave smaller names unchanged. That's why it's Milano/Milan, Venezia/Venice but Cagliari doesn't have an americanized name; that's why it's Moskva/Moscow but still Irkutsk; Warszawa/Warsaw, Gdansk/Danzig (in German), Katowice/Kattowitz (in German), etc.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#106

Post by Forgeties79 »

DrSiemer wrote: post #86
Forgeties79 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems accurate enough to me. That’s not a ton of money to uproot your life over tbh. Shows there’s willingness to leave with a little bit of incentive.

That money is for the research, not salary

Yup I wasn’t confused about that.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#107

Post by pjerem »

weberer wrote: post #101
pjerem wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there. You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered. It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is wh…

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install…

That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.

My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort.

Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#108

Post by drstewart »

vrganj wrote: post #91
drstewart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Europe was proud and independent and completely decoupled from the US, why do you need US scientists suddenly? Hmm...

That's part of the decoupling. Onshoring as much knowledge as possible.

Europe needs Americans to decouple from America.

Got it.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#110

Post by flexagoon »

DrSiemer wrote: post #86
Forgeties79 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems accurate enough to me. That’s not a ton of money to uproot your life over tbh. Shows there’s willingness to leave with a little bit of incentive.

That money is for the research, not salary

Dutch researcher salaries are also pretty high (compared both to median Dutch salaries and academic salaries around the world), so it's still not like you're leaving USA to live in poverty
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