Will they be exempt from providing ID to post on the internet or nah?
Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
41–50 of 271 posts
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#42The US is accidentally conducting Operation Paperclip but in reverse. Who will benefit the most from it, China or Europe ?
China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy. Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Europe's problems: * active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)…
Whether China is immigration friendly or not is debatable. However, here's a recent announcement from last week:
Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Omar M. Yaghi joins Tsinghua University full-time https://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/en/info/1244/14984.htm
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably Europe. Seems more attractive for researchers. China is probably too different to be attractive for most Americans.
It's not too different for ethnic Chinese researchers, of which there are a lot in American STEM departments.
Chinese are far more open to working in foreign environments/contexts that Americans are, IMO. Just look at the foreign language learning statistics: most Americans tend to only know English, unless their family was fairly recently from a non-English speaking country. Meanwhile the Chinese landing in the US tend to already have decent English education, and dive right into doing what they're there to do.
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy. Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Europe's problems: * active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)…
> China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks What do you mean? I've never been to China, but know quite a few non-han white Europeans who lived there for both shorter and longer periods of time. Some studied, others worked there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China has a good summary (click through to its sources); as of 2020 there were about 1.5 million immigrants in China, just under 600K of which from Hong Kong/Macao/Taiwan; as of 2023 there's 12.000 people with permanent residency cards, which would be the expats that live and work there without nationalizing.
For comparsion, in the US as of 2023, nearly 48 million inhabitants (14.3% of total) are foreign-born (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...). Or the Netherlands, 4.4 million of its ~18 million inhabitants are from abroad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Netherland...).
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
In total, China has roughly the same amount of immigrants as Ireland. China is also objectively becoming more closed, not more open.
The amount of skilled immigrants, researchers and engineers, matters for this comparison. Not just the total amount including random people arriving at the coast.
No, total immigration matters. Human progress is always subject to the law large numbers.
Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another.
China is the opposite of that. You are hard hammered into the Han-ness, immediately. The language, the writing (which is a HUGE hurdle), the food, the way of life.
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#46The US is accidentally conducting Operation Paperclip but in reverse. Who will benefit the most from it, China or Europe ?
Is it an accident though? This seems very deliberate
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#47Isn't much of the science work just taking money for doing basically nothing? I don't think that is a loss for the us.
For real. How much more do we need to spend to learn that plants crave Brawndo?
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
In total, China has roughly the same amount of immigrants as Ireland. China is also objectively becoming more closed, not more open.
The amount of skilled immigrants, researchers and engineers, matters for this comparison. Not just the total amount including random people arriving at the coast.
This is a hugely loaded statement, but that aside, China is not open to immigrants, that was the original thesis and that hasn't been disproven yet.
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably Europe. Seems more attractive for researchers. China is probably too different to be attractive for most Americans.
It's not too different for ethnic Chinese researchers, of which there are a lot in American STEM departments.
For a lot of people it's easier to learn English than Chinese - you wouldn't get far if you don't speak the language in China. English gets you very far in Europe though, most research institutions, universities, high end professions, etc already have English as the going language because of the international character of these places.
Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)
#50This title is such clickbait. All the article talks about is a Dutch fund created to recruit scientists and they have successfully recruited them. At 1 million euros per head.
They have the first 34 researchers, all from top universities and institutes. That’s a major achievement, because as the article says, every researcher brings new knowledge as well as a whole international network with them.
Exactly; the biggest company in the Netherlands and its products (ASML and high end lithography machines), is built on top of the works of only a handful of researchers. The US nuclear weapons and space programs were similarly built on top of researchers they got from Europe. This is very much NOT a numbers game, and I want to believe top researchers rate their work and the benefit of humanity higher than a country, especially if that country is backsliding.