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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#151
post #28

Lists of banned books are often quite disappointing, and I think they fall into a few categories: - Books that are simply bad books and in addition to being bad take an aggressive, political bent. (eg: the handmaid's tale) - Books that seem relatively anodyne, and it's not clear why they were banned. (eg: the perks of being a wallflower) - Books that governments might have feared in the old days, but are now much les…

> Books that are simply bad books and in addition to being bad take an aggressive, political bent. (eg: the handmaid's tale) Weird example. The Handmaid's Tale is quite good. Edit: wow, downvotes for stating a book is quite good. HN at its worst. Edit 2: in fact it's so bizarre, also seeing other commenters here downvoted for saying Handmaid is a good book, that I struggled to see the reason for the ire. I'm not from…

i find that whenever walking into an HN post about books (or, oddly enough, anything regarding dark matter or dark energy), you are in for an absolutely wild ride of voting.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#152

I am normally with the cynics but I have trouble believing that none of the commenters are unaware that some books are banned in schools, prisons and military bases, in America. This is not just a problem limited to foreign theocracies.

They are banned in the US in the same way playboy magazine is, they are not allowed in certain places. Would you say that Playboy Magazine is a banned book becuase its not allowed in schools and prisons?

I would guess the person you are responding to is thinking about more mundane books that are or have been banned in public and private schools in recent history. Harry Potter, for example.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#154

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

Is there a valid reason to ban a book? On one hand, I agree there are books which are dangerous. But usually the most dangerous ones are one’s that are more innocuous. I think Catcher in the Rye is dangerous as I have seen grown men misread Holden as a hero to look up to rather than as a flawed mis-socialized man child. On the other hand, I have seen people go too far the other way and say that this book proves that everyone who rejects authority is just a bitter, poorly-socialized man baby. How painfully common these two misreadings provide me reason to ban my children from reading this book outside of my supervision.

However, Catcher in the Rye is banned not primarily for these nuanced misreadings, but instead primarily for its profanity. Meaning if we stripped the profanity out, this dangerous book would likely never have been banned in the first place. When you allow these bureaucratic institutions to ban books, they are not going to Socraticly reason through what should and should not be banned in a rigorous manner. They are going to ban books that vibe against their “sensibilities”.

Given that we do not have philosopher kings making these ban decisions, the least bad option is to not have any ban. Encourage kids to read broadly and get many different perspectives. More importantly, teach them to act as a scouts who should be proud/excited when they find a new opinion other than their own — and even more excited to find an opinion better than their own to adopt — rather than a warrior who is proud that their previous opinion was “right the whole time”. Sometimes your old opinion was proven right by new information, but that should not make you excited/proud. I’m confident that if all children are taught this scout-mindset that solving the intractable problem of banning books “correctly” would be completely unnecessary. Matter of fact, having children build immunity to bad ideas through learning how to be a “good scout” would be strictly better than making little bubble-boys who are safe from bad ideas only because the thin bubble the “philosopher kings” set up for them. The latter bubble makes children’s immune system unprepared for the real world while the scout mindset helps build hyper-capable, curious, and civically engaged adults.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#155
post #143

Lists of banned books are often quite disappointing, and I think they fall into a few categories: - Books that are simply bad books and in addition to being bad take an aggressive, political bent. (eg: the handmaid's tale) - Books that seem relatively anodyne, and it's not clear why they were banned. (eg: the perks of being a wallflower) - Books that governments might have feared in the old days, but are now much les…

> ... prevent access to information. ... or find countless video reviews which contain its ideas Popping in to point out that novels are not "information" in the sense of being lists of facts or ideas. The medium is part of the message. That's why novels can be banned but a list of the facts/ideas are often not. Reading an AI summary of a novel is not even roughly equivalent to reading the book. (Before AI, there wer…

I think that's a really fair point. A full novel will give you an emotional impact that a list of facts will not provide. A beautifully-told story can convince (at least some people) better than any argument.

I'd still hold that you can just get ahold of books these days if you want to, but your point stands that the mere spread of ideas is not equivalent to really reading the whole book.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#156
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, make it part of the curriculum. Read it and shown how boring and stupid it is. Demystify such nonsense

> Read it and shown how boring and stupid it is. Except it's not, or it couldn't have continued to radicalize people to this very day.

... Wait, are you claiming that people are, having not previously been exposed to Nazism, reading it, and going "well, this seems like a pretty good idea really"? I'm fairly sure that's not a thing. No-one's being radicalised by it; rather the only people who really read it are already radicalised, because, otherwise, why would you bother?

There may be books which radicalise people. But I'm fairly sure Mein Kampf is not one of them.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#157

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

[deleted]

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#158
post #61

Dua Lipa opens, in Portugal, a library for books that are banned and censored (elsewhere).

That makes more sense. How could a library or a bookshop in a location legally offer books that are banned in that location?

Historically (and maybe still today, in some very authoritarian countries!) university libraries were often this.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#159
post #13

They are not banned in portugal. Appreciate the gesture but it s very inconsequential.

Isn't it good marketing though? If I'm a young person looking to read something on the edge, maybe it's not banned where I am but if it was banned somewhere else, that's intriguing. If the consequence is more people reading, I would argue it's far from inconsequential.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#160
post #64
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are banned somewhere and the library is open in Portugal. If they were banned in Portugal it would run afoul of the legal system, and probably be closed down, obviously. But if the criteria of being in the library - that the book be banned somewhere in the world; that's a reason to visit the library in of itself. Though I think there's going to be a lot of garbage, one need only remember that Life of Brian (the…

> one need only remember that Life of Brian (the Monty Python movie) is banned in the Vatican. I can find no confirmation of this, or of any ban since 1966 (and that is assuming that the index of forbidden books had legal force in the Vatican). > But if the criteria of being in the library - that the book be banned somewhere in the world; that's a reason to visit the library in of itself. Is it worth a visit to a phy…

One thing to note about this list is that it mostly seems to be books which were _banned at some point_. It's also terribly incomplete; while they got unbanned a while back, at one point Ireland banned _thousands_ of books, for instance.

(Some but not all country grids do list unbanned dates.)

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