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Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#171

Post by handle584 »

jasonhong wrote: post #42
est31 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy. Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Europe's problems: * active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)…

Whether China is immigration friendly or not is debatable. However, here's a recent announcement from last week: Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Omar M. Yaghi joins Tsinghua University full-time https://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/en/info/1244/14984.htm

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#172

Post by drnick1 »

jltsiren wrote: post #125
doctorwho42 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? Most people miss the fact that a sizeable % of our military budget is slated for research grants/funding. I'm a physicist in academia, and the amount of money we have gotten from DoD branches for things that have no immediate military applications is like 40-60% of our budget YoY. Like for straight fundamental physics research. Most scientists I know who have gone to Europe have had to go int…

The US spends less on academic research than the OECD average. See, for example, https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb202326/academic-r-d-internatio... From a European perspective, the most noticeable sign of this is the scarcity of postdocs at American universities. Some fields and individual labs are better funded, but on the average, the universities lean heavily on students doing the actual research.

Because postdocs are basically slavery. The expectation here is that after a top Ph.D. (which tend to be longer than in Europe), you get a real academic job (assistant professor).

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#173

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #117
est31 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy. Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Europe's problems: * active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)…

Europe is not immigration friendly as well if you don't speak the native language, of course one could live in an English speaking bubble, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be in Academia.

Politically speaking, the top polling party in Germany refuses to have a discussion about neo-nazis in its ranks, and boasts that "we are growing stronger and larger all the time":

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rwflha_NkVE

Similar things are going on in the UK (Reform/Restore) and France, where most projections have the National Rally candidate winning the next presidential election:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2027_F...

Anti-immigrant sentiments are surging all around the world: Canada, Australia, Japan, etc. Switzerland nearly passed an immigration freeze far more draconian than anything Trump ever proposed.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#174

Post by ux266478 »

distances wrote: post #121
weberer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install…

Can sliding windows be properly insulated? In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so. German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though? I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows an…

> Can sliding windows be properly insulated?

Yes. Beyond that, if they didn't work they wouldn't be used. Continental climates get much colder than pretty much anywhere in Europe, outside of a select few areas.

> In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.

Masonry is a bad match for cold. The structure acts as a high velocity heat conduit and the earth eats all the heat you produce. Europe's winters (in general) are extremely mild, arguably even more so than its summers.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#175

Post by BeetleB »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #64
cdash wrote: post #6

This title is such clickbait. All the article talks about is a Dutch fund created to recruit scientists and they have successfully recruited them. At 1 million euros per head.

> At 1 million euros per head. Over 5 years...

Which still a great salary and competitive with the US, in academia.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#176

Post by drnick1 »

est31 wrote: post #18
goldenarm wrote: post #2

The US is accidentally conducting Operation Paperclip but in reverse. Who will benefit the most from it, China or Europe ?

China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy. Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Europe's problems: * active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)…

You forgot, amomg others, increasingly non-white popation due to laughable immigration policies; absurd environmental policies that result in high energy prices; red tape and high taxes in every aspect of life.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#177

Post by jandrewrogers »

jltsiren wrote: post #95
doctorwho42 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any how much available funding is there in the EU? One of the reasons that so many researchers come to the US, even with our decline in research funding over the last 30 years, is because the US makes available so much God damn funding in comparison to any western world. The reason China is starting to outstrip the US? Because they are starting to surpass the US in funding. The only downside I have heard from Chinese…

Because there is less competition for jobs and grants. Europe spends more on academic research (as a fraction of GDP) than the US, but there are more people competing for the funding.

The attribution here is that the researcher works for an academic institution. It reflects the reality that the US funds much more research outside of academic institutions than Europe.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#178

Post by zappb »

neonstatic wrote: post #149
Levitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether China is immigration friendly or not is debatable. Compared to the US or Europe? No it's not debatable. No dual citizenship at all, most probably no citizenship. Harder residency. Good luck bringing family there. Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors.

> Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors. Language wise, absolutely. Racism-wise, I think you underestimate how wildly racist the US is. As a European, I am still quite shocked. Everything in that country is viewed through the lens of skin color.

Ask a European about Roma people. They are far more racist than the Americans.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#179

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

neonstatic wrote: post #149
Levitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether China is immigration friendly or not is debatable. Compared to the US or Europe? No it's not debatable. No dual citizenship at all, most probably no citizenship. Harder residency. Good luck bringing family there. Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors.

> Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors. Language wise, absolutely. Racism-wise, I think you underestimate how wildly racist the US is. As a European, I am still quite shocked. Everything in that country is viewed through the lens of skin color.

Some data suggests that Europe is more racist than the US:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/0...

Easy to find social media anecdotes supporting that position if you want:

https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/17g68zx/pervasive...

I think the main difference between Europe and the US is that European progressives tend to have a lot of national vanity and believe that their country doesn't have racism, regardless of the evidence. US progressives tend to have national self-hatred (the US is one of the world's most self-hating countries, according to polls) and work really hard to find racism everywhere.

I see the rise of the far right as fundamentally different in Europe and the US. In Europe it's driven by migrants who don't integrate well. In the US, immigrants typically integrate well, and the far right is fundamentally a reaction to our crazy far left: https://www.imightbewrong.org/p/how-crazy-is-darializa-avila... The US far right is worried about immigrants because they believe immigrants will vote for far left candidates, even though the data doesn't exactly support that position.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#180

Post by jandrewrogers »

doctorwho42 wrote: post #103
jltsiren wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is less competition for jobs and grants. Europe spends more on academic research (as a fraction of GDP) than the US, but there are more people competing for the funding.

Are you sure about that? Most people miss the fact that a sizeable % of our military budget is slated for research grants/funding. I'm a physicist in academia, and the amount of money we have gotten from DoD branches for things that have no immediate military applications is like 40-60% of our budget YoY. Like for straight fundamental physics research. Most scientists I know who have gone to Europe have had to go int…

They are referring specifically to research funding for people employed in academia. The US funds a huge amount of research outside of academia.

A large percentage of the US DoD research budget is going to researchers outside of academia, for example. This includes a lot of relatively pure research with no immediate military application.

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