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President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

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Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#51

Post by philistine »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

It’s your politicians who are crooked beyond belief, and have been for a long time.

In the early 90s, Jean Chrétien was caught on a hot mike incident decrying that American politicians make sure that every vote they give has a local benefit for them. He was right to be incredulous that there is no party line in American politics; the only safety against pure cronyism is morals.

US politicians were appalled and reportedly threatened Chrétien with supporting the Québec separatists. He was never caught complaining again.

All that to say that Trump is the end result of the long tumble of US politics. Unless you rewrite your constitution I consider you guys toast. You’ll lose democracy in my lifetime.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#54

Post by OutOfHere »

tempodox wrote: post #49

Isn’t it heartwarming to see Trump lend a hand to uplift his fellow criminals and get the message out that crime pays?

For some reason, he acts as if environmental crimes of any kind are not real. In effect he goes so far as to strongly encourage them.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#55

Post by pibaker »

Y-bar wrote: post #5
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

I think the fact that you use a very high profile and beloved person as your example is in fact why giving pardoning power to the executive branch is bad — the pardon goes to whoever is able to draw the attention and appear the most likeable to the person with the pardoning power.

If you think a law is bad, repeal it. Go through the same legislative process that made it happen in the first place. Trying to fix systematic issues with one off bandaids heavily impacted by personal judgement of whoever happens to be in power is just asking for corruption.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#56

Post by rjrjrjrj »

saghm wrote: post #36
rjrjrjrj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad the safety valve is corrupt and dishonest.

So is the judiciary at times

The judicial branch has a set of laws, a system of appeals, etc. Perfect? No.

But decidedly better than an incurious buffoon arbitrarily handing out get of jail cards in exchange for political gain and/or self-enrichment.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#58

Post by pinkmuffinere »

OutOfHere wrote: post #29
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The crime was offering a commercial service to tamper with devices of others cars to roll coal. You won't understand until one day your lungs struggle to breathe due to pollution.

You’re right, that’s much worse. I should have read tfa before posting.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#59

Post by blacksmith_tb »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #8
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

I'm not being sarcastic at all. I think it's obvious that most or all of these men will interpret the pardon as permission to violate the Clean Air Act, and it's absolutely essential to the rule of law that they be punished harshly for doing so. They must understand that they are not above the law. Perhaps some of them have learned the error of their ways, and won't be rolling coal ever again; if so I wish them well.…

Ah, sorry to have imputed sarcasm then - and I agree that helping hundreds of monster-truck owners to roll coal is more serious and polluting than the individual yahoos doing it, so more deserving of doing time (eventually, maybe).

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#60

Post by saghm »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #56
saghm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the judiciary at times

The judicial branch has a set of laws, a system of appeals, etc. Perfect? No. But decidedly better than an incurious buffoon arbitrarily handing out get of jail cards in exchange for political gain and/or self-enrichment.

Given who's sitting at the top of the judiciary right now, the main difference is that there are a slightly larger but still single digit number of buffoons who handed the buffoon you're talking about his get out of jail card for their politican gain and self-enrichment.
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