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President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

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Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#21

Post by t0mas88 »

anonymousiam wrote: post #14
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

[flagged]

Did you read the article? This was not a case of "fixing their car" this was a 4 million dollar business selling illegal services to disable emission controls. They absolutely deserved to be prosecuted.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#22

Post by roughly »

thesumofall wrote: post #10
Y-bar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

But isn’t that what the parent says? Fix the underlying laws instead of relying on a single person to randomly overrule the law

Fixing the laws takes time.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#25

Post by steve_adams_86 »

thesumofall wrote: post #10
Y-bar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

But isn’t that what the parent says? Fix the underlying laws instead of relying on a single person to randomly overrule the law

We will always find ourselves in situations in which our existing laws allow for people to fall through cracks. I can see pardoning as a way to address that partially, yet it doesn’t explain what an adequate judgment would be instead. It’s simultaneously important in niche situations and yet too coarse of a solution.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#26

Post by shpx »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

A finite set of symbols (laws) can never express everything a reasonable person would want to be allowed to happen in the world.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#27

Post by potamic »

Y-bar wrote: post #5
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

I think they're more talking about systemic effects resulting from such a concept. When you have unchecked power concentrated at a single position, that position will inevitably use that power for their own personal gain, which in the case of pardons happens by enabling crime.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#28

Post by bit-anarchist »

sph wrote: post #11
Y-bar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

You can as easily use pardons to tip the scales to a more corrupt society. If you assume, hypothetically, that the justice system is operating as it should, a pardon means giving one person the right to ignore the laws of the country for a select few acquaintances. If one has to tolerate this blatant avenue for favoritism, I’d rather see the Supreme Court or judges themselves invested with this power, rather than the…

An argument against vesting pardons to the SC is that they are supposed to simply apply the law, not make quick corrections based on value judgments. If separation of powers is a concern, remember that checks and balances also exist.

If I may suggest anything, perhaps replacing the president should be made easier, either by making the people be able to recall the president, or by recalling the congressmen, and the congressmen then follow through with impeachment. Or both.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#29

Post by OutOfHere »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #12
OutOfHere wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a serious crime. Diesel fumes are very damaging to the lungs and heart. Imagine a pregnant woman being exposed to them. There is no logical way to make light of it. From your link: > the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times

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The crime was offering a commercial service to tamper with devices of others cars to roll coal. You won't understand until one day your lungs struggle to breathe due to pollution.
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