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President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

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Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#41

Post by greenavocado »

qalmakka wrote: post #15
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

It is a serious crime. Diesel exhaust is s IARC type 1 carcinogen. Somehow people go nuts when companies pollute water but not when they pollute the air they breathe

[flagged]

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#42

Post by orwin »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

Pardons are useful in a single specific way. As the laws cannot be changed retroactively (this would be against the principles of democracy), you need something to handle the case where a law was too strict or too dumb and is rescinded. In my country, pardons are mostly issued by judges, and presidential pardons are also reviewed by judges (and always transformed into 'commutation of sentence' instead of full pardon, so that the person is still guilty)

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#44

Post by tim333 »

bob1029 wrote: post #18

The biggest problem with diesel engines is that they tend to last nearly forever by virtue of their design (tolerating high compression ratios). I see a lot of ancient big trucks on the road today that are completely legal in Texas but would probably get you sent straight to jail in Europe. The owners of these vehicles are oftentimes also diesel mechanics to some degree and can make their machine run much longer than…

>get you sent straight to jail in Europe

I'm in the UK and no one goes to jail but it's more expensive tax wise to run the more polluting ones. As a result you don't see many.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#45

Post by tim333 »

greenavocado wrote: post #41
qalmakka wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a serious crime. Diesel exhaust is s IARC type 1 carcinogen. Somehow people go nuts when companies pollute water but not when they pollute the air they breathe

[flagged]

I'm in central London where there were problems with that and the new diesels are hugely better. Used to be black smoke and layers of the stuff. Now not noticable. I'm not sure the figures but 10x or 100x?

Google AI has: Modern diesel engines are dramatically cleaner than older vehicles, emitting up to 95-99% fewer nitrogen oxides (NOx) and capturing up to 99% of harmful particulate matter (soot).

I quite cycling around 2006 because I got smokers cough from the clouds of smoke coming out of the busses and similar. Now it's fine. Both the new diesels being better and things going electric.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#46

Post by soraminazuki »

SilentM68 wrote: post #31
Y-bar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

In your opinion, which administration have you known to have issued a pardon that was equally justifiable in the eyes of members of political parties from both sides of the isle?

Chelsea Manning had her sentence commuted.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#47

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

There's always going to be miscarriages of justice and laws which are morally wrong.

e.g. Alan Turing being prosecuted for homosexuality.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#48

Post by Peanuts99 »

greenavocado wrote: post #41
qalmakka wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a serious crime. Diesel exhaust is s IARC type 1 carcinogen. Somehow people go nuts when companies pollute water but not when they pollute the air they breathe

[flagged]

Buses can carry 100 people at a time so have a far larger social utility. Besides, most are going electric.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#50

Post by bryanlarsen »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

Take a look at the list of people pardoned by any president except the current one. Most (but not all) of the pardons are to correct clear miscarriages of justice.
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