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International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

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Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#61

Post by luckysori »

I am happy about the outcome of this investigation, but I think it's far more important to highlight the other people mentioned in this decision statement. I'm not so familiar with Navara, who I understand was also under a lot of pressure because of this, so I will speak about Daniel and his impact on me.

Daniel Naroditsky was one of the most influential figures in chess: arguably the best chess educator on the internet; one of the most talented commentators out there; and an absolute demon at speed chess, who could go toe to toe with the best to ever do it. It's hard to come across someone as passionate, knowledgeable and generous about something as Daniel was about chess. And most importantly he appeared to be such a kind soul.

I find it hard to enjoy and engage with chess after his passing. He was the main reason to keep coming back for me. I wholeheartedly recommend every video in his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DanielNaroditskyGM.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#62

Post by zelphirkalt »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #27

Kramnik undeniably pushed Naroditsky into developing an addiction which ultimately contributed to his death. Whether it was intentional suicide or accidental overdose(both are possible) seems to me to be completely irrelevant. Kramnik engaged in a dedicated bullying and a smear campaign against Danya for a prolonged period, without substantive evidence, and never let up. When Danya explicitly stated in multiple inter…

Stripping him of his titles doesn't do much good to be honest. In the history books he will still simply be someone who won and became world champion, whether stripped of the title or not. What would do us good, is to realize, that even someone in that position is not necessarily a saint or even a good person. To realize that supposed contrast and keep it in mind would be better for us than stripping him of titles, that he did in fact truly earn. Also it would only give him more ammunition.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#63

Post by IncreasePosts »

manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

A lot of people imagine chess players to he smart, but there's a video of asking grandmasters very simple (imho) general knowledge questions that they did absolutely abysmally at. It's probably safe to assume that someone who is really good at chess is actually bad at anything that isn't chess

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#64

Post by nextaccountic »

WJW wrote: post #53
g42gregory wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us who have no idea who this guy is and what he said, what did he do? Did he say something unapproved?

Do you mean Kramnik or Hans Niemann? Kramnik ((ab)using his status as a former world champion) accused several other top level players to the point that one of them committed suicide. Niemann allegedly cheated (In my personal opinion as a decently rated but certainly not elite chess player, he probably did cheat in this particular game, though proof was never given and probably never will) at a high level chess tourn…

Hans Niemann most likely did not cheat in the famous game where he won against Magnus Carlsen in the Sinquefield cup. Or at least, there is no credible evidence for cheating, and Carlsen actually did not formally accuse him of cheating either.

Hans Niemann cheated in online matches when he was younger though

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#65

Post by pdpi »

prmoustache wrote: post #45
Arainach wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By using computers.

Aren't tournaments either held in person or with at least some judge/referree witnessing both parties?

We had that story[0] a couple of years back, about the guy who supposedly cheated by using vibrating anal beads.

0. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37657925

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#66

Post by TurdF3rguson »

kriro wrote: post #35
Arainach wrote: post #2

For those who don't follow chess, what were the allegations? This article is intentionally vague on all the details.

He basically accused many players of cheating without any real evidence. His proofs are notoriously bad. The most notable examples are Daniel Naroditsky who was under immense psychological stress due to the allegations and died due to an accidental kratom overdose (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety). Another prominent example are his allegations against Jose Martinez (aka Jospem) which resulted in them playing…

Oh, I didn't hear that he died from kratom, maybe chess should be sanctioning Joe Rogan instead.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#67

Post by zug_zug »

manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

Not as a defense of Kramnik's behavior, but Naroditsky's death was determined not likely to be suicide:

probable cardiac arrhythmia tied to systemic sarcoidosis, with methamphetamine/kratom as contributing factors.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#68

Post by adjejmxbdjdn »

t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #51
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #17

Kramnik is an asshole and this action is far too little far too late. His actions have possibly already led to the loss of a life. At the same time, FIDE also needs to look back at the behavior of some of the most powerful people in the sport in the whole Hans saga. What Hans was put through was ridiculous even if all the allegations were true, given how many actions were simply the result of the most powerful player…

Hans admitted to cheating. It's no wonder his career suffered. Incidentally, he is also a complete asshole.

The only cheating Hans admitted to and the only cheating proven were two (maybe 3?) online non monetary games when he was under 15 years old.

Pretty much every player has done something like that.

But again, he was blacklisted before any of even these marginal allegations were proven. And the actual allegations Magnus accused him of and that followed him for years has absolutely no evidence other than Magnus not accepting that Hans could beat him in a highly controlled over the table game.

Also, he continued to be punished in ways that are outside the actual punishment that was given to him that are not official but are being done through winks and nods between Carlsen and Hikaru and tournament organizers who don’t want to upset them.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#69

Post by [deleted] »

ball_of_lint wrote: post #58
searealist wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sindorov, who won the candidates, and will be playing for the world championship, has also had accounts banned on chess.com for (presumably) cheating as a teenager. Do you think it would be ok if a large part of the chess world conspired to keep him out of tournaments. Do you think it would be ok if the world made jokes that he cheated using a sex toy? Do you think it would be ok for the largest youtube chess channel…

Daniel Naroditsky is dead

[deleted]

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#70

Post by wongarsu »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #63
manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

A lot of people imagine chess players to he smart, but there's a video of asking grandmasters very simple (imho) general knowledge questions that they did absolutely abysmally at. It's probably safe to assume that someone who is really good at chess is actually bad at anything that isn't chess

I would call chess players smart in the abstract sense. Playing chess requires both good "compute power", working memory, and long-term memorization.

But to become grandmaster you have to dedicate a lot of your life to chess. It's not that these people couldn't know general knowledge or do higher math, they are simply not exposed to it. They are not smart in the sense of a universal genius, because that would require immersing yourself in all the things - the opposite of what a chess grandmaster does

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