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The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

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101–110 of 270 posts

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#101
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison What do you think the chances of being caught shoplifting is? If it's less than 50-33%, then you have the same problem as the OP where it makes sense to shoplift.

> What do you think the chances of being caught shoplifting is? If it's less than 50-33%, then you have the same problem as the OP where it makes sense to shoplift. Don't we already? Police and DAs at least here in California are not serious about punishing shoplifters AFAICT. I hear people say this is specifically because of the 2014 Proposition 47 (raising the threshold for felony theft from $400 to $950). Not sure…

>Don't we already?

So clearly we should... make it even more lenient? That's what OP was implying.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#102

I did not realize the egg crisis was found to be price fixing operation. As I recall during the whole thing the news was non-stop about how it was related to broad-based inflation, chicken culling for avian flu, etc. Seems like all that was a lie, or at least merely a half-truth.

[flagged]

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#103
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does permit something individuals don’t have: the internal investigation. The internal investigation has determined that our CEO had no knowledge of this, and that the bloody pig mask was all the idea of the people who make less money, and also we fired the CEO for unrelated reasons.

>The internal investigation has determined that our CEO had no knowledge of this, and that the bloody pig mask was all the idea of the people who make less money, and also we fired the CEO for unrelated reasons. That's exactly how the criminal justice system should work? If you can't prove a particular person is responsible, you don't have a case. That's exactly why they prosecuted the company as a whole instead, bec…

No one can prove the CEO did anything, but whatever it was it was worth 500x as much as the average employee.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#104
post #97
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's their job? I mean you're the one who brought up hitmen. What's their job?

If you think that denying a specific treatment (justified or otherwise) is comparable murder for hire, then I don't think there's anything worth discussing between the two of us.

Yeah, in my opinion an unjustified and profit motivated refusal to save a life is the same as intentionally taking that life. It's just the trolley problem and you're arguing that there is some innate nobility in refusing to touch the switch.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#105
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executives will be more afraid of being sent to prison for criminal charges, than having someone else's money get spent on fines. We can do both - increase the fines and set a precedent of arresting executives when their company does criminal things.

sure, prison time for some criminal stuff is cool too. i am more pushing back against the call for corporal punishment like caning

I have no moral objection, but it would just change the composition of CEOs as a group. Instead of just selecting for sociopaths, we'd start selecting for sociopaths with high pain tolerance.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#106

We really need to bring back corporal punishment, both for petty crimes and white collar crimes. The prison sentences don't make sense for the petty crimes, and the fines don't make sense for the white collar crimes. We need to legalize public caning and the stocks.

> the fines don't make sense for the white collar crimes. why do we need to jump to caning instead of increasing the fines to something more than an operating expense? in this case, if the fine was 1000x the profits instead of the other way around, the problem would be solved, right?

> the problem would be solved, right?

Corporal punishment is laughable outright, but that's masking the issue. Punishing corporations does not discourage the participants directly. The behavior will not change.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#107
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owners of corporations are mostly pension funds and the like.

Sort of True-ish. There are lots of different kinds of ownership. Ownership with little to no say in how things are run to ownership with basically all the control. If you are an owner with all the control, i.e. you are on the board or in corporate leadership(CEO/CFO/etc), then hey guess what,there is a really great cell here at the local prison just waiting for you, depending on how involved you were. If you are an…

This whole thread is a fascinating exercise. I'm watching HN derive Lenin's "What is to be Done?" from first principles.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does permit something individuals don’t have: the internal investigation. The internal investigation has determined that our CEO had no knowledge of this, and that the bloody pig mask was all the idea of the people who make less money, and also we fired the CEO for unrelated reasons.

>The internal investigation has determined that our CEO had no knowledge of this, and that the bloody pig mask was all the idea of the people who make less money, and also we fired the CEO for unrelated reasons. That's exactly how the criminal justice system should work? If you can't prove a particular person is responsible, you don't have a case. That's exactly why they prosecuted the company as a whole instead, bec…

[deleted]

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was addressed by Matt Levine in today's Money Stuff. The problem was not the presence or lack of competition, it was a technical failure of the market structure. Matt: This is a familiar story and you probably know the ending. There’s a big market (egg producers selling eggs to supermarkets etc.), and there’s a small market (egg producers selling extra eggs to each other on an electronic exchange). The price in…

While Matt is technically correct, it's much easier to maintain a conspiracy like this when you have a small number of participants with a high concentration of share. If power is more diluted among a greater number of participants you are way more likely to see defectors, which would provide accurate pricing data to the market and cause the conspiracy to fail.

Can that be reduced to Prisoners Dilemma game theory?

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#110
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we dont need new punishments, the system is just backwards. for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison. corporate fraud, cartels, pollution, big time tax evasion has to come with 20+ year sentences and fines based on your income like a traffic violation in norway. flat fines just dont work when the criminal is rich. in general we should be a lot more strict on sexua…

>in general we should be a lot more strict on sexual crimes (sa, trafficking, child abuse but not voluntary prostitution) and white collar/economic ones including wage theft, but less strict on drugs and property. drug possession and non commercial digital piracy should be decriminalized. Why? I mean, do you have a specific scientific research in mind, or is it something you feel is right? I mean, it makes sense to m…

To start with, the war on drugs was initiated by Nixon as a way to target political enemies (hippies and non-whites).
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