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The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

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Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#51

Post by LadyCailin »

DaedalusII wrote: post #47
tancop wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we dont need new punishments, the system is just backwards. for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison. corporate fraud, cartels, pollution, big time tax evasion has to come with 20+ year sentences and fines based on your income like a traffic violation in norway. flat fines just dont work when the criminal is rich. in general we should be a lot more strict on sexua…

[flagged]

They absolutely get to pick. They pick which cases they choose to prosecute, plea bargain, or dismiss, as well as what sentence they choose to ask for.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#52

Post by unethical_ban »

devilbunny wrote: post #31
Henchman21 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along with this we need the revocation of corporate charters and the liquidation of all assets belonging to the owners of any corp that is dissolved in this manner. The penalty for fucking over the public in general should be a lifetime of poverty.

The owners of corporations are mostly pension funds and the like.

Yet another issue with the modern US iteration of capitalism. The intentional design of the US stock market for people to depend on it for retirement, instead of getting enough wages to save their money risk-free or with government benefits.

Pushing 401k and IRA, making it so that's the only viable way (other than having a high-6-digit wage) to live comfortably in retirement, is a detriment to a healthy society.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#53

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

DaedalusII wrote: post #47
tancop wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we dont need new punishments, the system is just backwards. for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison. corporate fraud, cartels, pollution, big time tax evasion has to come with 20+ year sentences and fines based on your income like a traffic violation in norway. flat fines just dont work when the criminal is rich. in general we should be a lot more strict on sexua…

[flagged]

They have discretion to not prosecute. I was nearly killed and left with significant injuries. The police conspired to undercharge and the prosecutor DGAF.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#54

Post by stickfigure »

Taronar wrote: post #8

Things like this mainly occur in markets with little competition, killing of small business causes issues like this. Much of our grievances are caused by our high level of market concentration.

This was addressed by Matt Levine in today's Money Stuff. The problem was not the presence or lack of competition, it was a technical failure of the market structure. Matt:

This is a familiar story and you probably know the ending. There’s a big market (egg producers selling eggs to supermarkets etc.), and there’s a small market (egg producers selling extra eggs to each other on an electronic exchange). The price in the small market determines the price in the big market. Participants in the small market are also participants in the big market. You can spend a little money in the small market to move the price, which can make you a lot of money in the big market.

Not defending the bad actors here, but there's that whole "show me the incentives and I will predict the outcome" thing. If the market structure rewards manipulation, you get manipulation. The market structure doesn't have to be this way.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#55

Post by mcmcmc »

DaedalusII wrote: post #47
tancop wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we dont need new punishments, the system is just backwards. for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison. corporate fraud, cartels, pollution, big time tax evasion has to come with 20+ year sentences and fines based on your income like a traffic violation in norway. flat fines just dont work when the criminal is rich. in general we should be a lot more strict on sexua…

[flagged]

1) they can be selective with which arrests result in charges

2) prosecutors can tell police straight up what they will or won’t prosecute, which affects what crimes cops will investigate or make an arrest for

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#56

Post by gruez »

tancop wrote: post #39
declan_roberts wrote: post #21

We really need to bring back corporal punishment, both for petty crimes and white collar crimes. The prison sentences don't make sense for the petty crimes, and the fines don't make sense for the white collar crimes. We need to legalize public caning and the stocks.

we dont need new punishments, the system is just backwards. for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison. corporate fraud, cartels, pollution, big time tax evasion has to come with 20+ year sentences and fines based on your income like a traffic violation in norway. flat fines just dont work when the criminal is rich. in general we should be a lot more strict on sexua…

>for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison

What do you think the chances of being caught shoplifting is? If it's less than 50-33%, then you have the same problem as the OP where it makes sense to shoplift.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#57

Post by benregenspan »

DaedalusII wrote: post #47
tancop wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we dont need new punishments, the system is just backwards. for things like shoplifting and vandalism it should be double or triple damages with no prison. corporate fraud, cartels, pollution, big time tax evasion has to come with 20+ year sentences and fines based on your income like a traffic violation in norway. flat fines just dont work when the criminal is rich. in general we should be a lot more strict on sexua…

[flagged]

There is a whole area of research on this. Prosecutors have significant discretion around charging and (suggested) sentence, and this allows bias to creep in. I've heard people debate the quality of specific research on the size of the bias, but not the mere idea that bias is possible at all.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#58

Post by gruez »

jklinger410 wrote: post #40

It's so fun how corporations are protected from individual liability but also their money is treated a speech.

>It's so fun how corporations are protected from individual liability

They're not. If you hire a hitman through a corporation it doesn't magically become legal.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#59

Post by the__alchemist »

declan_roberts wrote: post #21

We really need to bring back corporal punishment, both for petty crimes and white collar crimes. The prison sentences don't make sense for the petty crimes, and the fines don't make sense for the white collar crimes. We need to legalize public caning and the stocks.

Alternatively: (As stated in the other replies) jail execs.

Re: The Egg Bandits Made a Thousand Times the Fine They Just Paid for Price Fixing

#60

Post by arrosenberg »

stickfigure wrote: post #54
Taronar wrote: post #8

Things like this mainly occur in markets with little competition, killing of small business causes issues like this. Much of our grievances are caused by our high level of market concentration.

This was addressed by Matt Levine in today's Money Stuff. The problem was not the presence or lack of competition, it was a technical failure of the market structure. Matt: This is a familiar story and you probably know the ending. There’s a big market (egg producers selling eggs to supermarkets etc.), and there’s a small market (egg producers selling extra eggs to each other on an electronic exchange). The price in…

While Matt is technically correct, it's much easier to maintain a conspiracy like this when you have a small number of participants with a high concentration of share.

If power is more diluted among a greater number of participants you are way more likely to see defectors, which would provide accurate pricing data to the market and cause the conspiracy to fail.

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