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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#271

Post by qsera »

defrost wrote: post #251
qsera wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not about large trials. It is about changing the attitude of medical practitioners and the media that refuse to acknowledge a vaccine could have caused an adverse effect. I understand that this is to not feed the vaccine hesitancy. But to anyone observing carefully, this is a crucial break in the information chain that can feedback any ill effects of any vaccine back to the creators.

> the attitude of medical practitioners and the media that refuse to acknowledge a vaccine could have caused an adverse effect. In what alternative group think echo chamber did that happen within? Here, in the real world, it was acknowledged from the get go that vaccines carried risks and that was why the call went out, from almost the start of 2020, for trial volunteers to find the risks associated with a number of…

I am talking about a case when there IS some adverse effect, after it happened.

In that case, there is generally an effort from the practitioners that the vaccine could not have caused it, particularly when the said thing is not mentioned in the package insert or in the list of adverse effects from the manufacture.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#272

Post by RandomLensman »

lixtra wrote: post #266
RandomLensman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Operation Warpspeed addressed that by running a very large stage 3 trial. One reason that isn't normally done is the high cost of such a large trial.

Would that large trial have shown the cancerous effect of smoking? If not, do you then agree that some possible adverse effects were not checked for and could have slipped through?

Don't know. But would standard smaller trials have captured it?

We are kind of back to my initial question that is conceptually unrelated to the vaccine trial: do you need trials to run into millions or billions of participants or into decades if you want to capture certain (rare) things?.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#273

Post by qsera »

estearum wrote: post #186
vfclists wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does being "pro-vax" mean? That you believe in any claims of vaccine efficacy made by the manufacturers or the FDA and are more then willing to have them injected into your body?

It probably means that you take the statistical evidence produced by massive double-blinded placebo-controlled randomized clinical trials as actual evidence

That is not really an evidence unless you yourself eliminate any biases or flaws in the trial methodology.

Even trained professionals fail to do that regularly...

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#274

Post by logifail »

idontwantthis wrote: post #207
Sabinus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tiny fraction of infants react to infant vaccinations. But the harm those children experience is a infintesimal fraction of the harm all children would feel if there were no infant vaccinations. It's a trade off but it's one that must be made. The parents whose child died did the best thing they could do. Until we can screen for the infants that will react, vaccinations are the best choice.

It's a false trade off because without vaccines, the kids that would have died from vaccines are still in danger !

> the kids that would have died from vaccines are still in danger

Except that we knew by May 2020 (possibly even earlier) that the data showed that the young and otherwise healthy were at extraordinarily low risk from Covid.

I still recall a conversation with child#2 after one of his school friends was at home quarantining after testing positive for Covid.

I asked my son if he knew if his friend was feeling better...

"Daddy, he's not poorly, he's just got Covid".

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#275

Post by koonsolo »

cedws wrote: post #220
cedws wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the vaccines were provably linked to the death of young people who had blood clots they shouldn't have had. The common argument made is that the vaccine saved more lives than they took, but this is pretty fucked up IMO. It's the trolley problem IRL - if you force someone to get a vaccine and they die as a result, you are responsible for their death. Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because…

For the record, this comment is not arguing against vaccines or their veracity, there seems to have been confusion about that. I am specifically arguing against vaccine mandates.

In Belgium, the polio vaccine is mandatory, and rightly so.

I'm willing to bet that in the next 20 years, some kid in the western world will suffer the consequences of polio, because of the anti-vax lunatics.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#276

Post by KiwiJohnno »

cedws wrote: post #81
swingboy wrote: post #67

Serious question in good faith: what was the deal with the “calamari” (clots?) the anti-vax crowd kept talking about being found in the veins/arteries of folks who took the Covid vaccine?

IIRC the vaccines were provably linked to the death of young people who had blood clots they shouldn't have had. The common argument made is that the vaccine saved more lives than they took, but this is pretty fucked up IMO. It's the trolley problem IRL - if you force someone to get a vaccine and they die as a result, you are responsible for their death. Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because…

Yes, I think you are correct in reducing the argument to its basic factors. Yep, its fucked up.

However if we’re going to talk about moral responsibility for vaccine mandates, we also have to consider moral responsibility for non-vaccination leading to spread of a dangerous virus during a pandemic.

If you are going to hold one group responsible for vaccine-related deaths of mandated vaccines, you must also hold the group who refused the vaccine responsible for any deaths of other people who were infected as a result of their vaccine refusal.

Vaccine deaths were real, and very rare. COVID deaths from preventable spread were also real, and much more common. Public policy had to weigh both, not pretend either side of the risk didn’t exist.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#277

Post by RandomLensman »

qsera wrote: post #271
defrost wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the attitude of medical practitioners and the media that refuse to acknowledge a vaccine could have caused an adverse effect. In what alternative group think echo chamber did that happen within? Here, in the real world, it was acknowledged from the get go that vaccines carried risks and that was why the call went out, from almost the start of 2020, for trial volunteers to find the risks associated with a number of…

I am talking about a case when there IS some adverse effect, after it happened. In that case, there is generally an effort from the practitioners that the vaccine could not have caused it, particularly when the said thing is not mentioned in the package insert or in the list of adverse effects from the manufacture.

How would you suggest to establish causality?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#278

Post by antoniojtorres »

z3ratul163071 wrote: post #221

how exactly were the vaccines effective, if every single person i know who got them got covid?

Astounding that this question is being asked (presumably) in earnest after the whole ordeal we went through. Wow.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#279

Post by LMYahooTFY »

thisisit wrote: post #228
cedws wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the vaccines were provably linked to the death of young people who had blood clots they shouldn't have had. The common argument made is that the vaccine saved more lives than they took, but this is pretty fucked up IMO. It's the trolley problem IRL - if you force someone to get a vaccine and they die as a result, you are responsible for their death. Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because…

> Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because they have legal immunity for the COVID vaccines. There is remedy against vaccine harm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen... This was passed in response to claims against DPT vaccine and manufacturers stopping production of the said vaccine. Lawmakers feared loss of herd immunity and passed the law. Now vaccine skeptics say thi…

Perhaps "vaccine skeptics" say this because the Covid vaccines are not covered under VICP. They're covered under CICP, which is more stringent and has paid out one person $6 million, and a few hundred grand spread out between some dozen others.

My friend who was diagnosed, by multiple doctors in two hospitals with Myocarditis caused by the vaccine has yet to receive any money. It ruined his career.

"Tyranny of the minority" doesn't remotely apply here. No one has the authority to sacrifice one group of citizens to save another group of citizens.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#280

Post by antoniojtorres »

bad_username wrote: post #244
fivetenpen wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never meant to prevent people from getting COVID. They were meant to prevent people from dying due to COVID. The fact they were able to tell you they had COVID means it was a resounding success (not dead).

> They were never meant to prevent people from getting COVID. "COVID-19 vaccination will help keep you from getting COVID-19" - https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/97780/ You see, this kind of lying and gaslighting is exactly what feeds the distrust in the government and scientific establishment in general public. No number of studies is going to reverse that any time soon.

They will HELP, they never claimed you would be IMMUNE. it’s in the text you’re citing!
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