Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 577 posts

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#551

Post by KaiserPro »

mvdtnz wrote: post #509
KaiserPro wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but isn't this textbook second amendment? as in well organised militia’s right to bear arms? They demonstrated a level of organisation much higher level than Rittenhouse ever did.

Americans are given the right to bear arms so they can overthrow a tyrannical government. Doesn't mean the government has to sit there and take it. And it certainly doesn't mean you can shoot cops and get away with it.

The USA is a common law system, so some actions have precedence, and shape how laws are applied. (hence why the supreme court is able to have split opinions about the 14th amendment)

If you are able to use a stungun on a cop and get a pardon, then why not this? (actually pardons are usually not precedent setting, but forgive the stupid legal interpretation. )

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#552

Post by birdsongs »

jmyeet wrote: post #443
birdsongs wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the DNC needs to grow a spine and perform hard correction and repair. Which is to say, I don't think that will happen, and some form of collapse is inevitable. But I'm far from a political scientist. Just an engineer with a history hobby, pattern matching.

There is a persistent narrative that the DNC is incompetent. That they're just trying to be nice and to compromise. And it's simply not true and needs to be disposed of. The DNC have known what works in elections since 2008 when Obama swept and won states like Iowa. They might argue that Obama was generationally charismatic (which is true) but it was the message that won, a message of progressive populism. Here's a 2…

Thanks for the info. It makes sense to me.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#553

Post by mafuy »

Manuel_D wrote: post #522
the_real_cher wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there wars where one party isnt protesting?

This is just a nonsensical question. The US Revolutionary War was a war. Whether or not there were non violent protests happening contemporaneously doesn't change the fact that it was a war .

No. It became a war, but civil wars tend to not start all at once and out of the blue. What would the situation look like at the very beginning?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#554

Post by beardedwizard »

undersuit wrote: post #528
beardedwizard wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what you said. However, Italy is a country that did recover from fascism. It seems like you are more interested in being a doomer than engaging in good faith discussion. I'll pass on the defeatist doom porn.

Did they? Who is Italy's PM right now? As to this doomer nonsense I only said you can't vote your way out of fascism, there are other ways to escape fascism.

I don't think I need to quote your own post back to you where the word "vote" is not present. You are not here for a good faith discussion.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#555

Post by vel0city »

BobbyJo wrote: post #541
vel0city wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think their obsession with classic cars is relevant to the case? I'd say no, just generally liking classic cars isn't material to the case. I've got tons of classic cars on my fridge from Rock Auto. Does that mean I'm likely to steal a car? Would someone removing those magnets from my fridge and giving it to a friend be hiding evidence if I were to steal a car? Are people having a bible likely to bomb an abo…

> I'd say no, just generally liking classic cars isn't material to the case. Every lawyer would disagree, but you do you.

So you do think that I'm likely to steal a car because I've got some magnets on a fridge? When the neighbor's car went missing I should be the prime suspect because I shop at Rock Auto from time to time?

You do want to live in a world where something as innocent as magnets on a fridge with some classic cars are used as evidence you stole a car?

I guess my house should just be devoid of any kind of media, artwork, designs, or anything at all really. Having any kind of flair to a space could be used as evidence against me. Having a Dr. Dre CD clearly means I'm trafficking marijuana. Having a car magazine means I'm out there stealing cars. Having a bible means I'm a religious extremist bombing abortion clinics. It's a risk for me to own any of these as they'll be misconstrued and used against me as evidence for crimes I didn't commit.

Whew, threw out all my stuff, dodged a bullet there. I guess I should also be concerned about the colors in my home though. Green, the color of money, obviously means I'm obsessed with money, could be used as evidence against me for financial crimes. Red, seems pretty aggressive, could be used against me for violent actions. Guess I shouldn't paint my house any specific colors, that could be used as evidence against me as well.

> Every lawyer would disagree, but you do you.

Given you didn't even know most judges (nearly 80% of them in the US) face some form of elections I don't exactly trust your opinions of what "every lawyer" would think.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#556

Post by reverius42 »

snvzz wrote: post #248
lelandfe wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Prairieland_ICE_detention...

Do not just link some Wikipedia article. Express your point.

The parent comment has a lot of "if this" and "if that", but the linked Wikipedia article has a thorough sequence of events. The point is clearly: we don't need to surmise.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#557

Post by wak90 »

Manuel_D wrote: post #537
wak90 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interpretation of the facts and institutions here are thoroughly alien to me. There's so much unpacking to be done I'm not sure I have the time on my smoke break but I'll give it a shot. First, law enforcement as a concept is not static. It is a social construct. For me, the only acceptable reason for LE to draw a firearm is to exercise deadly force to protect civilians from a deadly force. For you, it seems you…

This group showed up at the ICE facility with a dozen sets of body armor, multiple firearms, and radios. They shot fireworks at the facility, and when the law enforcement officers went to go arrest them a member of the group shot the officer. Those facts are not disputed. Using deadly force in self defense against law enforcement officer is only justified when that law enforcement officer is acting outside the bounds…

> Using deadly force in self defense against law enforcement officer is only justified when that law enforcement officer is acting outside the bounds of the law.

I'd say I'm astonished but I'm not.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#558

Post by Chinjut »

bawolff wrote: post #167
Chinjut wrote: post #148

A lot of people in these Hacker News comments are accepting the framing that moving the zines is evidence tampering and therefore deserves a 30 year sentence. What crime are zines evidence of?

I don't think that is the relavent question. Did he move the items because he believed that they were evidence being sought by the police? I don't really care if they are actually evidence of something or not. I care if the accused believed they were and moved them for that purpose.

What if you believe (correctly) that a corrupt government intends to punish you exorbitantly beyond reason for possession of these zines? Is it still immoral to move the zines? Is it so immoral that it therefore justifies 30 years of imprisonment for moving the zines?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#559

Post by flossposse »

ndriscoll wrote: post #8
lovich wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the speech illegal? Not giving my email to this site so I can’t read the rest but it seems odd that any sort of speech gets multi year sentences much less multi decade unless it was direct calls to violence.

I don't think there's even a claim the speech is illegal. Rather, it's that "transporting zines" when your spouse gets arrested on suspicion of crimes related to a designated terrorist organization is about as legal as "arts and crafts" (i.e. shredding documents) when your spouse is arrested for fraud. It's the obstruction of justice part that's illegal, not the possession. As far as I know she could be fully acquitt…

But were the zines evidence of a crime? I haven't been able to find any indication in the public records that they were.

If on Saturday my brother gets arrested and on Monday before school I stop by his house to pick up the textbooks I left there, I'm not obstructing an investigation.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#560

Post by cmrdporcupine »

roncinephile wrote: post #533
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely no way. The Democratic party is currently having a public freak out about 3 DSA members winning in NY primaries and about the mayor of NY. They voted en-masse last year to join with the Republicans in congress to symbolically "denounce socialism" in all its forms. a) That party would rather lose to Trump than let even moderate social democrats have strong influence b) There is no way they're going to bat f…

> appeal to the "non-existent" center This is an insane notion. The center decides all elections in a two party system.

Then why does the US have a far right gov't?
Post reply on HN