Was this a jury trial?
Technically. But the judge dismissed the first jury and then hand selected a new one without the defense.
30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
481–490 of 577 posts
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#482Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it legal to shoot a uniformed police officer pulling a gun on someone?
Can it be defense of self or others, to shoot a cop who draws a lethal weapon on someone who's not an immediate threat? If it can't, the second amendment is even more pointless than it already appears to be.
Who decides whether or not someone is an immediate threat? Is "immediate threat" even the bar for a police officer to draw their weapon? Police can draw their weapons in situations civilians can't legally so I'm not sure the same standards apply.
I don't think the second amendment is particularly relevant. The point of the second amendment is defense against a tyrannical government so by definition we're in extrajudicial territory and don't care if it's legal or not.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#483So I wonder if I go around saying I'm "pro-fascist", it's OK now because I'm not saying I'm "anti-fascist"? But that would be false of me. So maybe I can only declare I'm "fascism-neutral"? That would also be false.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have not enough imagination to come up with a scenario where making a sandwich would create concern that it might obstruct an investigation. But obstruction is defined by intent and outcome, not the exact means. Abstractions like this are common and necessary in law. So, in your example you'd still be guilty.
The "and outcome" is my point. It has to actually be something that could be a problem. Similar to how it's not attempted murder to cast a magic spell intending to kill someone with it, no matter how sincerely you believe in the magic.
Okay but in this case, the act, if successful, would have the outcome that it prevents recovery of critical evidence in a homicide, so yes that would count as obstruction. It didn't, of course, because the plan was foiled, but that's not relevant.
(With that said, I agree that 30 years is excessive, even under the heuristic that it should be a greater penalty than the crime it supported.)
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#485Earlier quoted context omitted.
The "and outcome" is my point. It has to actually be something that could be a problem. Similar to how it's not attempted murder to cast a magic spell intending to kill someone with it, no matter how sincerely you believe in the magic.
Okay but in this case, the act, if successful, would have the outcome that it prevents recovery of critical evidence in a homicide, so yes that would count as obstruction. It didn't, of course, because the plan was foiled, but that's not relevant. (With that said, I agree that 30 years is excessive, even under the heuristic that it should be a greater penalty than the crime it supported.)
Is that actually true? Were the zines critical evidence in a homicide?
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not legal to shoot the police who have their gun out. Considering they had much more firepower than the cops it's quite reasonable for the police to draw their gun
Who had much more firepower? That the cops knew about? The shooter was accused of ambushing the cops, but didn't fire until the cop drew on and aimed at a retreating protester (that part wasn't in dispute, it was part of the cop's testimony). AFAIK none of the other protesters had firearms, just the single shooter hiding on the edge of the woods. This was shortly before two people got murdered on camera by cops in Mi…
Shooting a cop gets you 50 years even if they shoot someone first. They also didnt shoot anyone. In this case where the cops had quite reasonable worry for their safety in the dead of night with explosions already having gone off and better armed people about, so it was perfectly reasonable for them to have their guns out.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#487Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you name a single relevant historical example for this claim?
Why don't you just name a country that voted its way out of fascism.
That's not what you said. However, Italy is a country that did recover from fascism.
It seems like you are more interested in being a doomer than engaging in good faith discussion. I'll pass on the defeatist doom porn.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#488Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Lure police into an ambush" is quite a stretch. It's quite normal to do noise demonstrations outside jails/prisons to show solidarity with the captives, the captives will often times knock on the windows to communicate back. In fact there were noise demonstrations outside the Delaney Hall ICE jail in New Jersey just this month, which you may have heard about. The mischaracterization of fireworks as "explosives" is a…
If you don’t think fireworks are explosives you’re buying the wrong ones.
Or the right ones. Maybe celebrating a holiday or whatever doesn't need explosives...
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#489Good that Americans have a right to bear arms exactly to prevent this kind of totalitarian overtake of the country.
From the outside, it looks like what the stasi was doing, in the oh so vile communist regime (it was also a totalitarian one, and not a regime I’d want to live under). And now the US is doing it to itself.
Wait until elections time. Trump has hinted several times publicly that there won’t be a next election or any need to replace him. We assumed it was just more verbal diarrhea like he has a knack for. But in this context and in light of his modus operandi, who knows…
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#490Freedom of speech is absolute. It doesn't matter what the government thinks of the situation. It isn't a "crime" to move publications, even if the police think that. It's sickening how this could even possibly happen.
It is absolutely a crime to conceal evidence in an ongoing criminal trial. The contents of the publications is absolutely irrelevant: the individual was asked to conceal evidence and agreed to do it.
No, it isn't a crime to move any of your belongings or those of a friend which you have permission for.
The state tries to terrorize people domestically daily. Just ignore them and carry on.