[flagged]
30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
141–150 of 577 posts
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think all of this hinges on whether or not you think it was a protest. If they had been peacefully sitting outside the facility holding signs, I think you'd have a case that the sentencing is insane. But if they were actively planning a break-in & preparing to use deadly force, that's quite another matter. I haven't spent a lot of timing reading about it, but what I have read suggests it was much closer to the latt…
Unfortunately, the administration wants it both ways- if you were on the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021, you were simply part of a "peaceful tour group". If you stand to the side of an ICE agent in Minneapolis, you are a "domestic terrorist", deserve to be murdered in cold blood, and any attempts to investigate further will be stonewalled. So it's hard to take their characterization seriously when they have demon…
[flagged]
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#143Up until now these crazy cases have been rejected by the courts. But this feels like a crack in the dam. A judge actually sentenced someone to 30 years for hiding zines, zines that had been published for years. This was under the pretense hiding those zines was hiding evidence of criminality. And the criminality was worth 75 years. For someone who was at a protest where a federal agent was shot, but was not the shoot…
[flagged]
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Uh, I think firing a gun at someone is a bit more than "inciting violence", more like attempted murder? The shot cop had drawn a gun on someone who was running away. The judge didn’t even permit the defense to argue “defense of self or others” as a justification.
Is it legal to shoot a uniformed police officer pulling a gun on someone?
Can it be defense of self or others, to shoot a cop who draws a lethal weapon on someone who's not an immediate threat?
If it can't, the second amendment is even more pointless than it already appears to be.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately, the administration wants it both ways- if you were on the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021, you were simply part of a "peaceful tour group". If you stand to the side of an ICE agent in Minneapolis, you are a "domestic terrorist", deserve to be murdered in cold blood, and any attempts to investigate further will be stonewalled. So it's hard to take their characterization seriously when they have demon…
[flagged]
“That guy” had a name. His name was Alex Pretti. He was disarmed before he was shot in the head. He was not even holding his weapon at any point.
Are you implying that simply carrying a legal firearm while at a protest means you can be murdered, without any subsequent investigation?
Again the Overton window has shifted so far just in my lifetime. This would have been front page news with congressional investigations just 10-15 years ago.
Pictures of protesters openly carrying weapons at demonstrations who were not subsequently murdered by federal agents.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/us/politics/michigan-stat...
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/us/kyle-rittenhouse-ar15-...
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/black-armed-protesters...
Picture of Alex pretti before he was murdered.
https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/ice-shootin...
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Uh, I think firing a gun at someone is a bit more than "inciting violence", more like attempted murder? The shot cop had drawn a gun on someone who was running away. The judge didn’t even permit the defense to argue “defense of self or others” as a justification.
It is not legal to shoot the police who have their gun out. Considering they had much more firepower than the cops it's quite reasonable for the police to draw their gun
Who had much more firepower? That the cops knew about? The shooter was accused of ambushing the cops, but didn't fire until the cop drew on and aimed at a retreating protester (that part wasn't in dispute, it was part of the cop's testimony). AFAIK none of the other protesters had firearms, just the single shooter hiding on the edge of the woods.
This was shortly before two people got murdered on camera by cops in Minneapolis, and after/around the same time as several other attempted murders (that would have been successfully spun as something chargeable on the victim, if not for video evidence showing plainly that the cops were lying)... so... it doesn't seem like a totally crazy notion to me, that a person might have shown up armed intending only to fire if it looked like a cop was going to shoot someone without a great reason. Maybe a jury would still have convicted (there was a bunch of fuckery with jury selection on this case, incidentally, and I mean way more than usual, even, it's worth reading about; like after what the court selected for on the jury, I believe they almost certainly would still have convicted) but not even being able to raise that defense seems nuts.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Ugh let’s not get all conspiracy theory up in here. Show me real evidence of that and I’ll believe you. Until then - to say at the same time - the Feds are so incompetent and also the Feds are organizing an elaborate secret network of agitators to be at all major protests and riots - let’s just say the logic doesn’t logic.
The plant things was constantly projected by them, so they've definitely done it. That is the whole point of projecting.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#148A lot of people in these Hacker News comments are accepting the framing that moving the zines is evidence tampering and therefore deserves a 30 year sentence. What crime are zines evidence of?
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Can anyone seriously define “antifa”? What would the pardon read? “Anyone who is anti-fascism is hereby pardoned…”? Edit: downvoting me doesn’t answer the question. If you have a definition please reply! If nobody can define “antifa” how the heck can you prosecute someone for being a member of it?
Wikipedia uses "a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement." Until recently, there was nothing controversial or illegal about being any of those things.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime.
In what way could that possibly have obstructed that investigation?
The link above literally says:
> Conspiracy to Conceal Documents (Count 12) and other objects that would implicate Maricela Rueda in the riot and shooting at the Prairieland facility.
> Defendants convicted: Sanchez Estrada and Maricela Rueda
Obviously prosecutors always present things in the worst possible way for defendants, but I think the GP poster's point is pretty valid:
> Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime.