Earlier quoted context omitted.
*Murderer
I guess you don't believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty?
One can believe in this concept and believe a decision (or the law) was wrong.
30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
281–290 of 577 posts
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#282Let me get this right… all these people got from 70-100 years in prison for spray painting slogans on the side of some ICE infrastructure, and setting off fireworks.
Then fair enough, one of them shot a police officer, but the officer survived, and even the FBI employee described in the trial that he’s not sure who shot first.
The US is insane.
What’s to stop any future antifa group from immediately opening up on all the personel involved? They were carrying the guns for it, and apparently it doesn’t make a hoot of difference to the sentencing…
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#283A lot of people in these Hacker News comments are accepting the framing that moving the zines is evidence tampering and therefore deserves a 30 year sentence. What crime are zines evidence of?
I didn't see anyone arguing it was worth 30. I saw a lot aruing that it was a crime, and more than moving zines
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
One might consider ICE detention centers to be morally equivalent to concentration camps. This sounds like the federal government trying to protect a controversial agency and immigration policy under the current regime, not ordinary citizens. The man who got 30 years wasn't there and didn't fire a gun.
One might consider a lot of things. But if you are at shooting war with United States government, then when United States government puts your away, you don't get to claim it's a free speech issue. You can't sit on those two chairs at once. Either you are a Warrior of Light battling the Nazis, and then it's way beyond free speech, or it's a public discussion and then "free speech" does not include shooting people. Yo…
Seven of the people jailed did not shoot the police officer or “assisted” the shooter in any form. They just happened to participate in the protest and share political affinity.
The “crime” investigation obstructed by hiding the zines is being left-wing. That has no actual relation to the shooting. That is 100% a free speech issue.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The 30 year sentence was for hiding documentation [...] it wasn't just "transporting Zines" As far as I can tell, the moving of zines (he was pulled over and had a box in his car) is what's being presented as "hiding documentation" - not something beyond that. > being sought under a federal warrant Timeline seems to be that a warrant was obtained after pulling him over ("Sanchez-Estrada was then arrested on state t…
Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime.
> Intent is an important aspect of crime.
Intent ia required aspect of most crimes.
When it’s missing, the charged crime usually includes recklessness.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
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What would you suggest? There are real divisions in this country and a lack of shared ground truth. This thread among many is an example. I vouched for your earlier comment stating the proximate cause of death for those involved in January 6 because you’re correct. Still, it’s hard for me to then say with a straight face that, for example, officer sicknick would have died of a stroke if the riot didn’t happen. That s…
I don’t know what to suggest, because it’s become commonplace to lie and distort the truth among both sides. Neither one will likely stop doing it because that might give the other side an advantage.
I would say that non-partisans should hold them to account, but that’s only possible if you’re not overly concerned about the penalty for doing so. Doing this in person could lead you to catch a beating, which is ridiculous.
Somewhere there is a crown lying in the gutter with the words “The Truth” written on it. Someone could pick it up and start using it at any time, and everyone would love it. The only problem is that this person would need a strong network with powerful backers before they pick up that crown, because too many powerful people benefit when the public believes in lies. So maybe the starting point is building that network. A network of people willing to face hard truths, and to defend those truths once someone starts bringing them forward.
I’m not sure it’s possible. Americans love lying and being lied to.
For the record, I think all the deaths connected with the event were tragic, including both the protestors and officers.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just to be clear, the January 6 defendants: - were a group of at least 1000 people - who, among other things, erected a noose on the capitol grounds, brought zip ties and weapons - forcefully overran several capital police barricades intended to deter their entrance - used any weapon available including poles etc to violently attack any police in their way Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents with…
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J6 insurrectionists got many years less than 30, for doing far more than hiding very weak circumstantial evidence.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#288[flagged]
There's an ocean of difference between "moved some magazines" and "helped organize the event and explicitly called for violence". You know that, though; you're just intentionally missing the point.
> helped organize the event and explicitly called for violence
I know some other guy that did this after he was beaten in some sort of contest. Don’t think he was ever punished for it. Landed on his feet, building a new ballroom now.
Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alright, so all of these die hard Republicans had a plan to do a coup...and none of them brought guns to the actual coup? Really? It was stupid for many reasons, but it was a riot, not some preplanned ambush with weapons like is being talked about in the OP.
My god why are you so willfully ignorant of the fact that guns were present. Just stop talking if you’re going to play dumb or are dumb.
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Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
One might consider ICE detention centers to be morally equivalent to concentration camps. This sounds like the federal government trying to protect a controversial agency and immigration policy under the current regime, not ordinary citizens. The man who got 30 years wasn't there and didn't fire a gun.
Doesn't matter how they morally equivocate. The reasonable way to address this is through voting and the legal system. If you want to start shooting people, then prepare for a well-deserved, long prison sentence.
" If you want to start shooting people, then prepare for a well-deserved, long prison sentence."
* unless you're a law-enforcement officer, in which case folks like laughing_man are totally okay with you killing folks for vandalism because it upholds the legal system.