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30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

theintercept.com

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Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#51

Post by ipython »

wmf wrote: post #41
ipython wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the administration wants it both ways- if you were on the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021, you were simply part of a "peaceful tour group". If you stand to the side of an ICE agent in Minneapolis, you are a "domestic terrorist", deserve to be murdered in cold blood, and any attempts to investigate further will be stonewalled. So it's hard to take their characterization seriously when they have demon…

[flagged]

Can anyone seriously define “antifa”? What would the pardon read? “Anyone who is anti-fascism is hereby pardoned…”?

Edit: downvoting me doesn’t answer the question. If you have a definition please reply! If nobody can define “antifa” how the heck can you prosecute someone for being a member of it?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#52

Post by paisawalla »

devmor wrote: post #28
appreciatorBus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of this hinges on whether or not you think it was a protest. If they had been peacefully sitting outside the facility holding signs, I think you'd have a case that the sentencing is insane. But if they were actively planning a break-in & preparing to use deadly force, that's quite another matter. I haven't spent a lot of timing reading about it, but what I have read suggests it was much closer to the latt…

From what I read, the person who was arrested for transporting zines was not even at the protest or part of the group - just the husband of one of the protestors.

[flagged]

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#53

Post by ls612 »

ipython wrote: post #34
appreciatorBus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of this hinges on whether or not you think it was a protest. If they had been peacefully sitting outside the facility holding signs, I think you'd have a case that the sentencing is insane. But if they were actively planning a break-in & preparing to use deadly force, that's quite another matter. I haven't spent a lot of timing reading about it, but what I have read suggests it was much closer to the latt…

Unfortunately, the administration wants it both ways- if you were on the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021, you were simply part of a "peaceful tour group". If you stand to the side of an ICE agent in Minneapolis, you are a "domestic terrorist", deserve to be murdered in cold blood, and any attempts to investigate further will be stonewalled. So it's hard to take their characterization seriously when they have demon…

[flagged]

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#54

Post by platevoltage »

baublet wrote: post #37
ipython wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, I feel like the overton window hasn't just shifted, it's off the page. Back in the 90s we would openly share the Anarchist's Cookbook, CIA field manual for sabotage, etc. then lace our emails intentionally with "trigger words" when it was theorized that the NSA was reading all Internet traffic, so as to emphasize our free speech absolutism. Now, an article comes out about sentences handed down for ... free speec…

These free speech warriors didn’t actually care about free speech. They just wanted to be able to say horrible things without consequences.

These people are actively hostile towards free speech. The fact that we let these people call themselves patriots is embarrassing.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#55

Post by OutOfHere »

paisawalla wrote: post #49
ipython wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the administration wants it both ways- if you were on the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021, you were simply part of a "peaceful tour group". If you stand to the side of an ICE agent in Minneapolis, you are a "domestic terrorist", deserve to be murdered in cold blood, and any attempts to investigate further will be stonewalled. So it's hard to take their characterization seriously when they have demon…

[flagged]

Huh. None of your first three points is meant to be illegal.

- coordinating using a Signal group

- bringing firearms, body armor, and first aid kits to a location just outside a federal facility

- taking up a concealed position along a tree line

For you to even list them shows a fascist bent.

As for fireworks, they might not be illegal either. The only possible crime is the shooting, and only if it was not done in self defense.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#56

Post by [deleted] »

cbarnes99 wrote: post #14
ndriscoll wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's even a claim the speech is illegal. Rather, it's that "transporting zines" when your spouse gets arrested on suspicion of crimes related to a designated terrorist organization is about as legal as "arts and crafts" (i.e. shredding documents) when your spouse is arrested for fraud. It's the obstruction of justice part that's illegal, not the possession. As far as I know she could be fully acquitt…

It's worth noting that the average sentence for murder in the US is 15 years. And it is not actually a "designated terrorist organization". The government is claiming they are a "domestic terrorist organization" which isnt a thing under US law, additionally, there is no organization to speak of.

[deleted]

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#57

Post by ipython »

paisawalla wrote: post #49
ipython wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the administration wants it both ways- if you were on the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021, you were simply part of a "peaceful tour group". If you stand to the side of an ICE agent in Minneapolis, you are a "domestic terrorist", deserve to be murdered in cold blood, and any attempts to investigate further will be stonewalled. So it's hard to take their characterization seriously when they have demon…

[flagged]

Just to be clear, the January 6 defendants:

- were a group of at least 1000 people

- who, among other things, erected a noose on the capitol grounds, brought zip ties and weapons

- forcefully overran several capital police barricades intended to deter their entrance

- used any weapon available including poles etc to violently attack any police in their way

Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents with a firearm, but in the J6 case, I’d say I’d lay blame for the subsequent deaths of the police officers who did die at the hands of the rioters.

To be clear I do not condone violence in either case.

However those 1000+ individuals on January 6 were ultimately pardoned for their actions. The family of one was in fact paid $5 million in taxpayer money because she was shot in a vain attempt to repel the crowd.

Why then should these defendants be treated completely differently? One gets the law, the other has their convictions overturned completely and history rewritten in their favor.

Btw I do not believe the individual who was charged in the article shot the federal agent or was part of the “concealed position” etc. So bringing that up is just an appeal to brush that individual with the actions of others.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#58

Post by [deleted] »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #40
ipython wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, I feel like the overton window hasn't just shifted, it's off the page. Back in the 90s we would openly share the Anarchist's Cookbook, CIA field manual for sabotage, etc. then lace our emails intentionally with "trigger words" when it was theorized that the NSA was reading all Internet traffic, so as to emphasize our free speech absolutism. Now, an article comes out about sentences handed down for ... free speec…

You're talking about a different group of people. Back then, the only people who were online were relatively technical, which for whatever reason correlates with leaning libertarian (left or right). My theory is that the experience of identifying a solution to a problem, then being told it can't be implemented because someone with authority says "no" shakes one's belief in authority fundamentally. Regardless, nowaday…

[deleted]

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#59

Post by paisawalla »

OutOfHere wrote: post #55
paisawalla wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Huh. None of your first three points is meant to be illegal. - coordinating using a Signal group - bringing firearms, body armor, and first aid kits to a location just outside a federal facility - taking up a concealed position along a tree line For you to even list them shows a fascist bent. As for fireworks, they might not be illegal either. The only possible crime is the shooting, and only if it was not done in se…

[flagged]

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#60

Post by fn-mote »

arjie wrote: post #5

It's pretty straightforward that if someone tells you to hide something because they've been arrested and they think it ties them to some criminal act, and then you hide it, you're an accessory to the crime. 30 years for that seems harsh though I anticipate they will be pardoned by the next Democratic Party President. Describing such an act without the obvious context is a pretty good way to point out that it's parti…

30 years for an accessory charge? For someone who did not attend the event? Sounds excessive.
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