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The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

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Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#451

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

ajb wrote: post #370
AJRF wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss the point - they are stitching it all together in a way that deanonymize you to your ISP under the guise of save the kids and then convenience

Do you want to help stop that, or do you just want to feel smarter than other people? If you happened to have seen my comments in other threads, you'd know I'm against all this. But telling people they are idiots isn't going to win them over. This is not just a criticism of your comment, it's widespread in these discussions. Opposing this requires: * Linking to specific harms, which the public can emotionally resonat…

I'm not a big fan of the "my way is the right way to oppose things, your way of opposing it is wrong" routine.

You can each make a difference in your own way and report back in a year who changed the world more. No need to alienate allies.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#452

Post by NinjaTrance »

tqi wrote: post #58

> You’re not happy about it, but you hand over a photo of your passport and hope it doesn’t come back to haunt you. I think for this argument to carry weight with voters, privacy advocates need to be much more specific about what "coming back to haunt you" looks like. They do a little bit of it later on[1], but I think most people do a rough cost benefit in their head and decide that the small benefit outweighs the s…

According to the article:

> Australia does order that personal information collected for age verification “must be destroyed once all purposes have been met.”

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#453

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

akie wrote: post #384
bigjimmyjohnson wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just off the top of my head, what if I want to use reddit mostly to talk about mundane things like local events in my city or technology and don't really care if that ties back to me, but I also want to ask about embarrassing health problems or just weird shit and I would rather not have that tied back to me? I should have no options without everyone in the world being able to easily find out about it? If some sites…

Which alternative measures do you propose to counter the society destabilising effects I've described in the original comment? Because I believe there are none.

I'm not convinced that the status quo needs changing. Can you make a case with statistics?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#454

Post by spwa4 »

DennisP wrote: post #447
spwa4 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not if you use a challenge-response protocol where the client returns a zero-knowledge proof of age, where the proof incorporates a random string sent by the website. Obviously it does. These $1 per-day apps are 24/7 online and so challenges can simply be proxied just the same as tokens. > ... law enforcement has local access to the minor's hardware ... This is a large part of what people, in practice, want to prev…

Are you saying such proxying apps exist now? Can you link a source for me? Regarding my scheme: The only way law enforcement should have access is if they show up and get the phone in their possession, with a warrant. Which could happen any time some teenager posts something without realizing it identifies them. If the teenager has your full credentials, that's when law enforcement sees who you are, and can take what…

But ... you were arguing method X prevents this from "They become a traceable identity token". And what are you going to do with the anonymous tokens? You'll identify whose credentials they are ...

If you can identify physical hardware from a request or post, obviously it's not anonymous. In fact, if you can identify the owner of credentials from the credentials, they're not anonymous. Obviously in an actual anonymous system it is utterly impossible to do this, whoever you are.

So you've just proven your own argument wrong. Anonymous age verification online is impossible. You don't agree?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#455

Post by iamnothere »

pastel8739 wrote: post #253
7e wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How so?

They are implying the use of trusted computing with proprietary software to ensure that only users on fully “trusted” (locked down) devices are allowed to access network resources.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#456

Post by iamnothere »

7e wrote: post #239
pastel8739 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t stop the scheme the parent proposes, where adults install some proxy on their device and challenges are responded to on the parent device. Then the private key never leaves the parent device and all the child device has is the proxy software, which could be set up to not log any identifier of the key that it used

Trusted computing fixes this up to the analog hole. Which is as much as you can expect.

Neuralink fixes the analog hole! Beam the ads directly to your cortex!

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#457

Post by GL26 »

Feels like identity control is not such a bad thing (prevents bots, identity thefts, cyberbullying, ect...). The questions is not "if it happens", its more a "who controls it?". If an NGO controls it, or a company that has "no political or national ownership", or something that is decentralized like BTC is, it's not a problem, but if it's a huge corp that only belongs to one single company which is backed and "piloted" by a government, that's when problems emerge.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#458

Post by delusional »

My what now? What privacy do I have on the corporate internet? I'm already being observed. My data integrated in vast "AI" models that try to predict me. We have seen tons of examples of the current tech giants farming out content moderation, hiring empoverished workers in the 3rd world to view all my videos and listen to all my conversations.

What privacy are we protecting here?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#459

Post by iamnothere »

scotty79 wrote: post #284
chr15m wrote: post #257

> you’re criticizing a powerful politician, or talking about your experiences with abuse or addiction, or discussing embarrassing medical issues you’re facing This is not the problem. Even if, like millions, you are not talking about these things online, these systems still place you in danger. Even if you are a perfect, clean, compliant citizen these privacy-destroying systems place you in danger. Fundamentally thes…

> these systems expose you to coercion, extortion, blackmail, ID theft, etc. by criminals and immoral people I'd prefer to have safety from that regardless of privacy. I think privacy is a stopgap semi-solution to those problems that might lessen the pressure to actually solve them in a reasonable manner.

It is impossible to “solve” problems like this, only manage them intelligently. Human societies have certain failure modes that are constant across history, and it’s foolish to assume that you will ever fully eliminate them. This means that reducing potential methods of political repression (via privacy, for instance) is more critical than attempting to create an impossibly perfect, airtight system, at least if you care about individual liberties.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#460

Post by DennisP »

Aurornis wrote: post #442
DennisP wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They become a traceable identity token Not if you use a challenge-response protocol where the client returns a zero-knowledge proof of age, where the proof incorporates a random string sent by the website. The traceable stuff is private information that the website never sees. If a minor is caught with it, then law enforcement has local access to the minor's hardware and can probably view the private data. At that…

> If a minor is caught with it, then law enforcement has local access to the minor's hardware and can probably view the private data. And then what? You think the police are going to make a case out of getting a token blacklisted or start an investigation into the person who the token came from? Also confiscate their devices as part of the investigation? I guarantee that the token source will be someone in another st…

I'm saying a system like this is preferable to attaching our real identities to everything we do online, as countries are attempting right now. We can verify age without losing privacy or anonymous speech.

It's still my preference to have no verification at all. On the internet, nobody should know you're a dog.

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