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The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

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Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#251

Post by paulddraper »

Aurornis wrote: post #93
paulddraper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The verification service would tie the token to the IP address/geolocation. It would also throttle the number of identifications, or expire old ones. Yes, that can eventually be worked around, but not really that different than doing the verification today on someone else's device.

> The verification service would tie the token to the IP address So I'm constantly grabbing new tokens from the government every time I go from work WiFi to my cellular internet to the train WiFi and then home? Sounds like a fantastic point for capturing more tracking data. > /geolocation. Which means I have to send my geolocation data to apps to confirm I can use my token? Don't want that either. > It would also thr…

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Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#252

Post by Terr_ »

j-bos wrote: post #149
kklisura wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> privacy advocates need to be much more specific I'm starting to think we need to lean on conspiracy theories in order to get broader population on train with this - and I'm saying this in utmost regret. That's a borrowing game from a right wing/extremist playbook. Start with this: requiring IDs online is a first step in micro-chipping the population. ...or how about this: marxists/atifa/nazis/zionists/islamist/whoe…

It's been decades since the very phrase "conspiracy theory" was introduced as a means to convert looking closer into something cringe. The normie position on most things is to accept something as no problem unless the mainstream designates it as such aliens), or it blows up enough that even unmotivated normies can't help but take notice (rich new york caribbean islanders). Privacy got close to that with Snowden, but…

To me the connotation is that it's always an unreasonable theory, such as one that requires thousands of people to maintain nearly perfect secrecy for an indefinite period, with no mistakes and dedication even when they'd benefit from blabbing.

In contrast, imagine a 2-person conspiracy where both have lifelong reasons to keep it secret. Yeah, I could have a theory about that conspiracy existing, but it wouldn't be, y'know, a conspiracy theory in the usual sense.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#253

Post by pastel8739 »

7e wrote: post #238
pastel8739 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t stop the scheme the parent proposes, where adults install some proxy on their device and challenges are responded to on the parent device. Then the private key never leaves the parent device and all the child device has is the proxy software, which could be set up to not log any identifier of the key that it used

[flagged]

How so?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#254

Post by kelseyfrog »

pibaker wrote: post #240
kulahan wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need an ID to access cigarettes and liquor and porn (from a physical store)...

My parents always kept a few bottles of wine in a cabinet in the living room. If 8 year old me wanted wine, I could have drunk a whole bottle while they were away and there was no way they could have stopped me. Yet I didn't drink my parents' wine, nor did I grow up alcoholic.

Kudos for resisting alcohol as an eight year old. How does that apply to all the kiddos whose lives are impacted by social media? Kind of a "them problem"?

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#256

Post by thefz »

HoldOnAMinute wrote: post #42

Assuming no revolutionary changes are coming to the USA, I am planning to opt out of the digital world when I retire. Physical media only. No subscriptions. Spend lots of time in the library. Find like-minded people and meet in person. Will only keep the bare minimum for survival, like banking.

Got to the same conclusion. Guess I will go back to in-person only, and lots lots of time away from devices (which I already have).

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#257

Post by chr15m »

> you’re criticizing a powerful politician, or talking about your experiences with abuse or addiction, or discussing embarrassing medical issues you’re facing

This is not the problem. Even if, like millions, you are not talking about these things online, these systems still place you in danger. Even if you are a perfect, clean, compliant citizen these privacy-destroying systems place you in danger.

Fundamentally these systems expose you to coercion, extortion, blackmail, ID theft, etc. by criminals and immoral people who want money or power over you. There are countless examples of bad actors inside and outside these systems obtaining access to innocent people's private data and misusing it to their detriment.

This is the strongest argument against these bad ideas. Arguments that paint innocent, privacy-seeking people as suspicious or immoral in any way, should not be used.

It is rational and moral to seek privacy for your own safety and the safety of those you care for. Don't let them argue otherwise.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#258

Post by iamnothere »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #109
iamnothere wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when parents don’t lock the liquor cabinet? When they smoke in front of their kids? When they leave porn laying on the table? Too bad!

How is it more like leaving a liquor cabinet open than not buckling them up with seatbelts? I'm glad we're discussing parental liability. It seems no one else is advocating for "social media access is criminal neglect," so I appreciate the novelty.

I would love to have this be the argument. Parents would typically agree that giving your kids heroin, for instance, should result in prison time. Yet I doubt they would argue the same for social media! Perhaps there should be discussions about what neglect looks like with regards to internet access and whether or not we need societal boundaries around this, enforced via punishing parents, rather than punishing everyone.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#259

Post by ufocia »

johnc1 wrote: post #106
j2kun wrote: post #21

There are at least some technological solutions here, such as anonymous credentials. [1] Modern versions of this technique allow one to associate metadata (like a proof of age exceeding a threshold) in such a way that the verifier can't even correlate repeated requests across users. Governments that are serious about age verification and individual privacy (which, doubtful they truly are) should agree on a protocol a…

There is a much easier solution that already exists - parental controls on children's devices. I honestly don't understand why is it not solving the problem? Yes, parents are responsible to set this up. But parents are also responsible to lock their alcohol, drugs or guns, condoms, etc., and many other things. Perhaps parental controls are not good enough? That's where the regulation could genuinely help - require ch…

Children can buy their own devices. School issued devices are not under parent control. Parental controls and school controls are laughable. There is no incentive for OS vendors/retailers to provide robust solutions to this problem. PII industry is essentially pushing regulatory capture.
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