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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#741

Post by shantnutiwari »

rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

"The 25,000 is there to make sure you can cover some liability

here is the UK we can get liability insurance. For me, as a one person limited company, it was around 200 pounds, and it was tax deductible. There is no reason to have 25,000 euro deposit.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#742

Post by nish1500 »

SapporoChris wrote: post #718
selfmodruntime wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German notaries, unlike anywhere in the world, get a percantage of a done deal. That is just insane.

Why is this insane? "The notary serves as a neutral party ensuring both buyer and seller understand their obligations. In 2026, combined notary and land registry fees typically range from 1.5% to 2% of the property price." This is actually lower than the real estate agent percentage in USA which can be 5 to 6% split between two agents. Also, the GP "The German notary is the highest-paid notary in the world, and the h…

"...notaries, historically the highest-paid freelancers in the country. On average, they earn €356,000 per year. Or, put another way: the equivalent of 37.4 years' salary for a childcare worker."

https://www.wiwo.de/erfolg/beruf/grosse-einkommensunterschie...

A German notary handling a €1 million residential purchase typically earns 3 to 6 times as much in fees as a Dutch notary handling an equivalent transaction and assuming the same legal responsibility.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#743

Post by miroljub »

jijijijij wrote: post #626
miroljub wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we don't. UG is still a GmbH bureaucratic monster which a bit less start capital. You still need to follow all taxation rules like GmbH, which costs you few more thousands per year (Bilanzeirung, Steuerberater, Abschluss, ...) just to be legaly compliant. American LLC taxation is as simple as or even simpler than Anlage EÜR. And you don't need a tax advisor to do it.

> which a bit less start capital. You may consider a capital stock of "at least 1€" even significantly less than 25k€. Not sure you are arguing in good faith.

Start capital is not the only capital you need.

UG forces you to pay 3-4.000€ per year on tax compliance. LLC costs 200-300$.

> Not sure you are arguing in good faith.

You are the one completely ignoring the running costs of UG (the same or bigger than GmbH) just to make UG look better than it really is. Now, please tell who is not arguing in good faith?

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#746

Post by blacklion »

egorfine wrote: post #729
ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is tax avoidance and not evasion. Tax evasion is always illegal.

As I see it, the general philosophy of taxation in old Europe is this: any euro that you take home is a theft of state money. Ideally you should pay 100% of your income and then some. It's okay to receive salary though.

> It's okay to receive salary though.

Are you sure? I'm paying 48% as income tax, and then 21% as VAT and some additional taxes on gasoline, electricity, LPG, car, motorcycle, house and water. Additionally I'm forced to buy health insurance and cannot pay for medicine out of my pocket, insurance is only way to go.

If I invest my money (buy ETF, for example) I need to pay tax on imputed income over my open positions on the stock market (no matter, goes actions/ETFs/options up or down, I pay for open positions, not for my income from these positions).

If I have more than 57K€ in the bank (with 0.5% interest when official inflation rate is about 4% and real one is more like 10-12%) I need to pay tax on that money (not for the interest earned, but for sum on the account!).

Looks like it is not Ok to receive salary if it is a notch above poverty level, too.

Oh, and now I need to pay duties (on top of VAT) on each purchase in non-EU internet shop, no matter how cheap it is, and there is minimal duty 4€ per item. So, buying something small but unique on AliExpress is very costly too. And it is not protection of local brands — because almost nothing is produced here, especially for DIY hobbies (my case, but I'm sure everybody can name other group of goods which has good selection over aboard).

I've get free samples of some technical fabrics from USA (could you buy then in EU, by meter and as privet persond and not a business? Nope) and payed 14€ to the state: like 2€ VAT on FedEx shipping costs (goods are FREE!) and 12€ fix to process this transaction. And, no, it is not FedEx fee, it is local custom fee, it it the same for official national post service. Nicccccce.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#747

Post by SapporoChris »

nish1500 wrote: post #742
SapporoChris wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this insane? "The notary serves as a neutral party ensuring both buyer and seller understand their obligations. In 2026, combined notary and land registry fees typically range from 1.5% to 2% of the property price." This is actually lower than the real estate agent percentage in USA which can be 5 to 6% split between two agents. Also, the GP "The German notary is the highest-paid notary in the world, and the h…

"...notaries, historically the highest-paid freelancers in the country. On average, they earn €356,000 per year. Or, put another way: the equivalent of 37.4 years' salary for a childcare worker." https://www.wiwo.de/erfolg/beruf/grosse-einkommensunterschie... A German notary handling a €1 million residential purchase typically earns 3 to 6 times as much in fees as a Dutch notary handling an equivalent transaction and…

That's very strange, because I look at the highest paid professions in Germany and I consistently don't see notary in the top five.

https://www.ue-germany.com/blog/top-10-highest-paying-jobs-i... https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/06/21/highest-paying-...

Lastly, https://optisalary.com/salary?job=notary-public&country=germ... shows notarys making Estimated Yearly Salary: 34,593 EUR which is about 1/10th of what https://www.wiwo.de/erfolg/beruf/grosse-einkommensunterschie... is showing.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#748

Post by brookst »

sscaryterry wrote: post #355
Aloha wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arizona Iced Tea at least nominally includes ‘tea’

I thought tea was for the British?

True story: until about 10-15 years ago it was impossible to get iced tea in London. Even Starbucks simply didn’t have ice.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#749

Post by trymas »

SapporoChris wrote: post #718
selfmodruntime wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German notaries, unlike anywhere in the world, get a percantage of a done deal. That is just insane.

Why is this insane? "The notary serves as a neutral party ensuring both buyer and seller understand their obligations. In 2026, combined notary and land registry fees typically range from 1.5% to 2% of the property price." This is actually lower than the real estate agent percentage in USA which can be 5 to 6% split between two agents. Also, the GP "The German notary is the highest-paid notary in the world, and the h…

I am neither from Germany nor USA, thus can only assume it's similar to what I experienced elsewhere in EU.

Notary's job in real estate deals is (briefly) to check that property is good for sale (has all necessary documents, up to date drawings, liabilities (mortgages, upstanding payments for services), there's no court orders upon the property, etc.) and inform seller, buyer (and creditor if there's a mortgage), what documents to bring and who pays who by which date. Also sends copies to national registry of real estate.

It does not matter if property is a shack for 10k€ or mansion for 5M€ - you pay a percentage on the value. I'd even argue that more expensive properties are easier to work with, because rich owners have their papers up to date, etc. And notary gets cool 50-100k€ from such property deal just to go through a list of procedural checkboxes and filling in blanks in a standard contract.

I don't know what actual legal liability for notaries exist if there's serious disputes, but I haven't heard any. Biggest real estate scandals are when someone develops somewhere where it's not allowed, but got approval through corruption. Notaries neither help, nor care here, because their responsiblity is only check that papers are good (not that they were acquired through corruption).

I forgot what's the actual percentage in my country, but it's in ballpark as for OP (maybe less - around ~1%, which is still too much). To make it worse: this fee is mandated by law and has a cap. So if you are top 1% property owner - you get reduced rates for notary!

I don't know what real estate angents are responsible for in USA, but notary is not a real estate agent. Where I live you can buy/sell without real estate agent (but many people still do), notary is mandatory (with law mandated fees) though.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#750

Post by egorfine »

blacklion wrote: post #746
egorfine wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I see it, the general philosophy of taxation in old Europe is this: any euro that you take home is a theft of state money. Ideally you should pay 100% of your income and then some. It's okay to receive salary though.

> It's okay to receive salary though. Are you sure? I'm paying 48% as income tax, and then 21% as VAT and some additional taxes on gasoline, electricity, LPG, car, motorcycle, house and water. Additionally I'm forced to buy health insurance and cannot pay for medicine out of my pocket, insurance is only way to go. If I invest my money (buy ETF, for example) I need to pay tax on imputed income over my open positions o…

> Looks like it is not Ok to receive salary if it is a notch above poverty level, too.

Oh yes of course I meant that the only salary it is okay to receive is a small one. One shall never ever be permitted to feel wealthy.

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