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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#281

Post by transcriptase »

neves wrote: post #130
Chu4eeno wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? Yes, as they explained they do it through things like pooling accounts, straight up payment fraud, and double-dipping by selling the logs of the conversations to chinese AI labs so that they can train their own models on it. > The link does mention Opus and other models bu…

Summarizing for you: Anthropic is a stupid company that let everybody steal their tokens

Behold the mindset of an individual from a low-trust society.

“x is stupid because y was smart and did z shady/illegal things at their expense, if x was smart they wouldn’t be susceptible to y going to great lengths to exploit them ergo it’s deserved”

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#282

Post by icfly2 »

tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#283

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #270
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should. Companies like this will inevitably try and pull the ladder up behind them.

You mean Anthropic and OpenAI, right?

All major AI companies. And any other high value industry which can be locked off (via tax brakes, patients etc)

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#284

Post by drekipus »

toobulkeh wrote: post #262
dualvariable wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Information wants to be free" Anthropic profited from training its models on all kinds of copyrighted information, live by the sword, die by the sword... Their model weights, training data, training methods, etc are all going to leak to China over time. Nobody on a site named _Hacker_ news should be all that upset about this.

You’re mistaking the original term hacker, a tinkerer of systems, for the black hat variety.

There is no real difference

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#285

Post by mannanj »

usef- wrote: post #246
anematode wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, it's hard to take seriously any complaint about "stealing" Anthropic's services, when their entire business is based on massive theft.

The US labs do seem to have announced a lot of licensing deals though, and are buying things today due to the previous lawsuits. At what point will we be better to support a lab that pays (some) licenses today vs the ones that pay none? Some of the deals are in the hundreds of millions, so I suspect licensing is over a billion today? (Pure guess). That might become a big disadvantage in a price (or content) war.

> At what point will we be better to support a lab that pays (some) licenses today vs the ones that pay none?

Why is a lab that pays all licenses today not on your list? Is ethics and morality that low on your radar?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#286

Post by killingtime74 »

usef- wrote: post #246
anematode wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, it's hard to take seriously any complaint about "stealing" Anthropic's services, when their entire business is based on massive theft.

The US labs do seem to have announced a lot of licensing deals though, and are buying things today due to the previous lawsuits. At what point will we be better to support a lab that pays (some) licenses today vs the ones that pay none? Some of the deals are in the hundreds of millions, so I suspect licensing is over a billion today? (Pure guess). That might become a big disadvantage in a price (or content) war.

I haven't seen any money, have you? Until they pay everyone or release weights theres really no change. Also they're doing this after they've already stolen. Not negotiated before

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#288

Post by naturalmovement »

bandrami wrote: post #230
naturalmovement wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also think Chinese selling counterfeit US postage stamps on eBay for 50% retail price (which is a major problem CBP and USPIS are fighting presently) is the free market at work? This post is so delusional and dripping with condescension I've read it three times and I still can't figure out if you're trolling or not.

Postage stamps have specific legal protection from duplication. The output of an LLM is not itself eligible for any legal IP protection.

So it's a proxy.

Do you think you can re-stream cable TV or Netflix to your own paying customers at a cheaper price?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#289

Post by achierius »

janalsncm wrote: post #280
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

If you continue studying econ you will learn about the various failure modes of free markets including the free rider problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

If you keep studying econ you will learn that these failures are actually the norm, and thus why the only "capitalist" states to really succeed have been the ones where the state was strong enough to reign in the market.

Of course, such a state of affairs is temporary at best -- since the alternative is so lucrative!

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#290

Post by 8note »

icfly2 wrote: post #282
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

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i still want those data sets to become public domain. open weights still isnt good enough
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