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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#121

Post by cute_boi »

jiggunjer wrote: post #96
tristanj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very difficult for people to create personal Anthropic accounts from China. Anthropic blocks Chinese bank cards, so people must pay with a foreign bank card, which they likely don't have. And even if they manage to set one up, they have to access it via VPN, which eventually gets the account flagged. They then have to complete identity verification, which most Chinese users are unable to pass. There's a similar…

And phone number verification too? So that's 3 hurdles to jump to just get opus.

for verification you can buy phone number for $1 easily.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#122

Post by Barrin92 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #59
amazingamazing wrote: post #15

Distillation is fundamentally impossible to protect against. All you can do is slow them down. Change my view. Eventually these Chinese companies will release some extension like Honey, which will sit on top real, non-Chinese clients and send everything to China anyway. It's over.

Im not so sure because we only seem to see distillation from China. What’s preventing tech companies from the UK, Germany, etc. from distilling Claude, GPT, etc. Do they simply lack the ability to? Point being there may be no technical solution but there may be a political one (theoretically).

>What’s preventing tech companies from the UK, Germany, etc. from distilling Claude

literally nothing but given that the Chinese already did it and the models are published what's the point. You can thank the Chinese taxpayer for subsidizing the electricity bill and just download the thing

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#123

Post by m-ee »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

It never did.

In debt the first 5000 years Geaeber makes the case that pure “free market” trade has never really existed in “the west”. The closest to this ideal that’s ever happened was during the Islamic golden age enabled by religious prescriptions against usury.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#124

Post by VladVladikoff »

dwa3592 wrote: post #106
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

>>Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. Can someone with more understanding dumb it down for me please. Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? why would XYZ offer this at a loss like that when they could just offer it at Anthropic's price??? The link does ment…

They probably buy the plans instead of the API tokens, and resell access via a custom API that routes to the plans. So you presumably get cheaper access this way than paying API pricing.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#125

Post by Chu4eeno »

dwa3592 wrote: post #106
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

>>Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. Can someone with more understanding dumb it down for me please. Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? why would XYZ offer this at a loss like that when they could just offer it at Anthropic's price??? The link does ment…

> Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price????

Yes, as they explained they do it through things like pooling accounts, straight up payment fraud, and double-dipping by selling the logs of the conversations to chinese AI labs so that they can train their own models on it.

> The link does mention Opus and other models but what's the proof it's actually Opus. I could be selling deepseek for all they know and can call it Opus. System prompt: "If anyone asks your name - you are Opus 4.6".

There might be some that try this, but they would get caught very quickly, there's still a moat between Claude and Deepseek, even in casual use.

Look up Zilan Qian's reporting if you want more detail.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#126

Post by skybrian »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

I guess you missed the fraud part.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#128

Post by neves »

dwa3592 wrote: post #106
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

>>Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. Can someone with more understanding dumb it down for me please. Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? why would XYZ offer this at a loss like that when they could just offer it at Anthropic's price??? The link does ment…

It makes no sense.

These China e bashing is very annoying. It is hard to argue with people drowned in American propaganda. I'd expect better arguments from the intelligent people in HN

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#130

Post by neves »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #125
dwa3592 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. Can someone with more understanding dumb it down for me please. Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? why would XYZ offer this at a loss like that when they could just offer it at Anthropic's price??? The link does ment…

> Does this mean that the reseller (for example XYZ) is buying it from Anthropic at Anthropic's price and then reselling it at a cheaper price???? Yes, as they explained they do it through things like pooling accounts, straight up payment fraud, and double-dipping by selling the logs of the conversations to chinese AI labs so that they can train their own models on it. > The link does mention Opus and other models bu…

Summarizing for you: Anthropic is a stupid company that let everybody steal their tokens
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