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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#241

Post by reasonableklout »

guybedo wrote: post #139

This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ... This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.

Anthropic did pay $1.5B to authors. But yes, it would be much better if they paid everyone on the internet dividends from every Claude chat. Or released Claude as an open model.

In practice, the former isn't very realistic, while the latter is politically dead as this is becoming a national security issue.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#243

Post by tristanj »

ValentineC wrote: post #207
tristanj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're called 中转站 (transfer stations/proxies). They can be a bit tricky to find on your own, so I'd suggest asking your preferred AI to search in Mandarin for you. I linked a larger operator in the parent comment, or have a look at https://hvoy.ai/ which lists a ton. You can also find many on Funpay, which may be easier to use. This is one seller I found, they're reselling "real Max 20x subscription accounts", at ~9…

> They can be a bit tricky to find on your own, so I'd suggest asking your preferred AI to search in Mandarin for you. Random, but are the frontier AI providers like ChatGPT better at searching the Chinese internet now? When I was in China a few months ago and asking AI for restaurant recommendations, all the US frontier providers were pretty useless, or plain out hallucinating, even if I specifically ask them to sea…

I'm not sure. I use Grok for most of my esoteric searches and it does quite well. I explicitly prompt it to search in the language most relevant to that query, and found it does quite well. I also tell it to respond back in English. Often, there is not enough information available in English about nice regional topics.

I know ChatGPT had an issue where it only tried to search in English (unless prompted) and the answers were not great.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#244

Post by killingtime74 »

yokisan wrote: post #224
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

One would think Anthropic could point Mythos at this to solve the reseller problem outright: - Purchase multiple accounts via resellers - Send messages that contain a UID - Capture these in Anthropic's logs - Shut down account. Use any metadata to identify related accounts /loop

Maybe Fable is not as capable as thought?

On the one hand they talk it up as world ending and on the other hand they can't manage bot accounts on their own service.

I want to hear how this can be rationalised.

From the article "every layer of control frontier US AI companies have added (geoblocking, phone verification, credit card requirements, and now live biometric KYC checks) has produced a corresponding layer of evasion infrastructure".

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#245

Post by jrflowers »

gruez wrote: post #206
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bootlegging is copyright theft. Is Claude output copyrighted? If anything, a tremendous amount of Claude’s input is copyrighted. If there’s any bootlegging going on it’s Anthropic that’s doing the bootlegging but having mirrored the video etc sufficiently to beat copyright law.

>Bootlegging is copyright theft. Ok, but what about those shady sites that resell Windows education keys? They're certainly a "better experience" than buying legit keys, by virtue of being significantly cheaper. You aren't even really committing copyright infringement in the process, because Microsoft gives out windows isos for free, and the seller is really selling a random 25 character string, which can hardly be c…

> US courts have consistently ruled its fair use.

Like Adam Smith wrote in The Wealth of Nations “‘Free market’ is when a company receives a favorable ruling about copyright in the United States”

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#246

Post by usef- »

anematode wrote: post #155
guybedo wrote: post #139

This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ... This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.

Yup, it's hard to take seriously any complaint about "stealing" Anthropic's services, when their entire business is based on massive theft.

The US labs do seem to have announced a lot of licensing deals though, and are buying things today due to the previous lawsuits.

At what point will we be better to support a lab that pays (some) licenses today vs the ones that pay none?

Some of the deals are in the hundreds of millions, so I suspect licensing is over a billion today? (Pure guess). That might become a big disadvantage in a price (or content) war.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#248

Post by thisisit »

thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #175
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

> what economics told me the free market was all about. Don't complain when US starts to play by the same rules China has been using for decades.

America industries used to play by the same rules. Look up Samuel Slater.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#250

Post by xdennis »

gruez wrote: post #140
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814

> Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market!

It's supremely ironic analogize distillation to copyright infringement when it's literally what Anthropic was found guilty of. It's not illegal to distill. It is illegal to pirate. And it's what Anthropic was found guilty of, not Alibaba.

https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-authors-copyright-judge...

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