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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#131

Post by Chu4eeno »

rconti wrote: post #93
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

Wait, so is your theory mutually exclusive to Anthropic's claims of "theft of capabilities"?

No, this reseller 中转站 thing is basically a loss leader for certain chinese ai labs to distill claude with verified human input.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#132

Post by alexnewman »

tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

But I can rebuild glm Using open source methods…

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#135

Post by techblueberry »

skybrian wrote: post #126
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

I guess you missed the fraud part.

Fraud is just what losers call disruption.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#136

Post by golergka »

tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

Needless to say, they also collect all the data and sell it to labs which want to distill the models they’re serving.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#137

Post by lokar »

avsteele wrote: post #102
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

What does this have to do with Alibaba? Are you saying Alibaba is the reseller? If not it sounds like you are describing a separate phenomenon.

They buy the logs from the bot farmers

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#138

Post by Chu4eeno »

fwipsy wrote: post #48
tristanj wrote: post #25

Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…

Hm! In this context, introducing ID verification may have been a significant silver lining to the order to take down Fable for Anthropic. This also sheds a very different light on people saying that competitive open-source models are undermining frontier labs' business model.

The chinese have already worked around the ID verification, by recruiting people in low-income countries to complete the checks for less than 30 USD per account (so much for Altman's Worldcoin).

https://tech.yahoo.com/ai/claude/articles/chinese-grey-marke...

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#139

Post by guybedo »

This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ...

This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#140

Post by gruez »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about.

Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814

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