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Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

reuters.com

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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#151

Post by UltraSane »

m-ee wrote: post #123
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

It never did. In debt the first 5000 years Geaeber makes the case that pure “free market” trade has never really existed in “the west”. The closest to this ideal that’s ever happened was during the Islamic golden age enabled by religious prescriptions against usury.

Without interest why would anyone loan money? Even the Islamic banking alternatives all just hide the interest charges.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#152

Post by gaiagraphia »

skybrian wrote: post #126
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

I guess you missed the fraud part.

>Fraud

According to which lawyer caste?

Are American laws absolute truth? If not, who cares?

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#153

Post by protimewaster »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #145

The hypocrisy of Anthropic complaining about "illicitly extracting its Claude AI model capabilities" and supporting the White House's accusation of China "stealing U.S. AI labs' intellectual property on an industrial scale" is hilarious. Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, et al trained their models by ignoring the rights of copyright holders when harvesting whatever content they could. Now one of them is crying fo…

The AI companies seem to take the viewpoint that everything on the internet is free, except their stuff. It's okay to hammer some random website with AI crawlers, ignoring robots.txt, and causing bandwidth costs to skyrocket. But if you cost an AI provider money with your data acquisition practices, well, that's just clearly unacceptable.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#154

Post by jbxntuehineoh »

nonethewiser wrote: post #43
walrus01 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your extremely efficient multi petabyte internet content suction machine is ripping off my extremely efficient multi petabyte internet content suction machine" Sucking down petabytes of peoples' copyrighted content that they never granted a specific license to you to use seems to be an unavoidable and default part of the process of building any huge LLM.

So why was there crawling in 1998 but no LLMs?

[flagged]

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#155

Post by anematode »

guybedo wrote: post #139

This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ... This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.

Yup, it's hard to take seriously any complaint about "stealing" Anthropic's services, when their entire business is based on massive theft.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#156

Post by gaiagraphia »

gruez wrote: post #140
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814

It's quite curious how multi billion dollar enterprises can't compete with a Chinese bootlegger with a big jacket, tbh.

Imagine having such a warchest and being so bad at business, lol.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#157

Post by ece »

It's hard to sympathize with Anthropic for this or the export ban, the hype over model capabilities probably fuels both things (in some ways). Training data for me, but not for thee (at any scale) doesn't seem like a tenable position. If anything, Claude's constitutional outputs should be trained on more rather than less.

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#159

Post by roxolotl »

guybedo wrote: post #139

This is a bit ironic, Anthropic complaining about a competitor using claude data to build its own product when Anthropic basically used all of human knowledge production to build claude, i don't think they paid every magazine, author, journalist, etc ... This is almost standard practice in any competitive industry anyways. Disassemble your competitor's product, study it and try to reproduce / improve.

Yea I’ll never have any sympathy for this claim given that Claude is built on theft

Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities

#160

Post by 4ffsss »

Mistletoe wrote: post #148
gaiagraphia wrote: post #115

This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. I also learnt that Anthropic should get better at what they do if they want to compete. If not, somebody else will win. Or does this not apply to huge US corporations any more?

AI was always going to be a race to the bottom and low margins. It’s why I’m extremely bearish on AI as an investment. It’s framed as some high margin business when it’s really going to end up like your toilet paper at Costco. You will use whatever is cheapest and gets the job done.

Correct.

And the value-add experiences that utilise LLMs require immense imagination et al that folks at Anthropic will not be able to conceive of - given that they have made immense sunk investments in existing assets. This clouds ones thinking immensely.

Both OAI and Anthropic have tremendous failure risk and this is of course not reflected in the fake private market valuations.

I see a world where lots of stuff is mass produced in china (tokens) but the acutal goods that deliver the experiences are designed, marketed and sold in the west at much higher prices. of course this a nightmare scenario for anthropic et al.

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