If you're an AI booster surely you'd think this was a good thing as it means more models are available in more places to more people more easily. I'm exactly the opposite, and I think this is a good thing because I want Anthropic to suffer.
Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
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Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#32Reminds me a bit of the anecdote of Steve Jobs complaining about people ripping off the Mac GUI, in the mid to late 1980s, when he gave no public acknowledgement to the work done by Xerox on the Alto and Star operating system. "you're trying to rip off what I've already ripped off!" Crawl the whole Internet to build a gargantuan sized LLM and then complain you're being copied...
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"Your extremely efficient multi petabyte internet content suction machine is ripping off my extremely efficient multi petabyte internet content suction machine"
Sucking down petabytes of peoples' copyrighted content that they never granted a specific license to you to use seems to be an unavoidable and default part of the process of building any huge LLM.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#33"You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen!"
“Hey! Haven’t you heard that two wrongs don’t make a right?!”
- Entitled jerk that initially wronged people
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#34Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…
Thats pretty crazy. This kind of thing jeopardizes Claude Max.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#35Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…
How are they 'streaming' the responses and 'pooling' the tokens? Do they have MacBooks in the US that run the queries and stream the outputs back to China?
They probably asked claude how to do it.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#36The narrative is moving towards KYC
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#37Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…
How are they 'streaming' the responses and 'pooling' the tokens? Do they have MacBooks in the US that run the queries and stream the outputs back to China?
Why do you need macbooks? Just rent servers from any hosting provider.
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#38Here's what is happening: Chinese resellers are offering Claude tokens at 70-90% below official Anthropic API prices. They achieve this by reselling capacity from pooled Claude Max accounts, payments fraud, and also reselling the model output & reasoning chains to various Chinese labs. They are subsidizing model access in exchange for user logs and reasoning traces, which they then sell as training data, allowing the…
How are they 'streaming' the responses and 'pooling' the tokens? Do they have MacBooks in the US that run the queries and stream the outputs back to China?
> Do they have MacBooks in the US that run the queries and stream the outputs back to China?
the answer to your question is containers/VMs + residential proxies
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#39Distillation is fundamentally impossible to protect against. All you can do is slow them down. Change my view. Eventually these Chinese companies will release some extension like Honey, which will sit on top real, non-Chinese clients and send everything to China anyway. It's over.
Doesn’t that require them to register an account using the browsers they’ve compromised? If anthropic adds identity verification won’t that cut that down. Maybe it will let them use Gemini inside of chrome
Re: Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities
#40Reminds me a bit of the anecdote of Steve Jobs complaining about people ripping off the Mac GUI, in the mid to late 1980s, when he gave no public acknowledgement to the work done by Xerox on the Alto and Star operating system. "you're trying to rip off what I've already ripped off!" Crawl the whole Internet to build a gargantuan sized LLM and then complain you're being copied...
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It's not really equivocation in this instance. This feels like a 'bad faith' comment. We can do better.
LLM's literally wouldn't work without the sum total of knowledge (in the forms of books and other copyrighted content) being used as 'training data' for these LLMs.
The 'bleeding edge' LLMs required many things, but: 1 Tech innovation ('attention') 2 Lots of compute 3 Data 4 Pre + post training
#4 doesn't happen without #3.
It's pretty obvious at this point that the major providers have stolen vast amounts of #3 - they have paid nearly 0 of the creators.
We can argue about the impact (I'd lean net good) vs. the cost. But arguing there isn't a cost is a bit silly.