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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#231

Post by nradov »

FLHerne wrote: post #51

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. > And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH The post itself explains exactly why the first complaint is a fallacy and the second one is tru…

If a company collapses while having more liabilities than assets then that's fine. No one is being forced to extend any credit to them.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#232

Post by notpushkin »

arethuza wrote: post #180
rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

When I co-founded a company in the UK in 1995 there were two £1 shares - one for each founder. Mind you it was an off the shelf company - but the process couldn't really be much simpler back then - and its probably a lot simpler now.

You can open an Estonian company with 0.01 € capital. It will look ridiculous in the registry, and you will still be liable for the remaining 2499.99 € personally anyway, but it is possible. I’ve seen a couple 100 € companies, which is more reasonable I guess.

You can also declare that you’ve paid the capital in, without any proof required for small amounts (up to 50k € IIRC). If you lie about it, I suppose you’ll be personally liable for everything, so definitely not worth risking it. Just put in like 500 €, set it aside on the business account, and don’t touch it.

(IANAL)

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#233

Post by markvdb »

fakedang wrote: post #196

Honestly why go through all these hoops? Is the Wyoming LLC + Wise account route shut off for most Europeans?

Yes. Can't just emigrate. No substance in the US meaning your llc would be liable for tax as if it were an llc in the country where you reside. You'd basicly double the liabilities and administration for no good reason.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#234

Post by piterrro »

florakel wrote: post #226
piterrro wrote: post #107

I've setup my own company in Poland in 2015, by submitting a web form, 30 minutes later I could issue a fully VAT compliant invoice. This was not an incorporation however - that was a sole proprietorship, but I could still hire people full time, issue invoices etc.

You can do the same in Germany. Costs 29 Euros with an online form. Once the sole proprietorship is setup you apply for your tax id and done. The whole process took 2 weeks in my city. Legally you can even start invoicing as soon as you registered your business. The problem with OP is that he chose an overly complicated structure. Probably got milked by lawyers and advisors.

thanks good to know! I felt something was off here

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#235

Post by alexbilbie »

gwd wrote: post #112
bartread wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it used to be one form and a fee of £25 or something like that. I think, nowadays, that's probably just done online as well.

That won't get you a VAT ID, which is the key thing he says he needs to be able to bill people outside of Germany. It is significantly cheaper than 9k EUR and faster than 6 months to get in the UK, however.

It is free to become VAT registered and only takes a few days for the VAT number to be assigned and posted to you.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#236

Post by florakel »

fredsters_s wrote: post #79

it is very funny that most of the (presumably germans) in the comments are saying "it's not that bad and it's fine because you chose a complicated LLC structure"

Looks like he got hot milked by “advisors” who insisted in an overly complicated setup. Setting up a UG is fast and easy as long as you stick to the standard and you don’t need advisors or lawyers.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#238

Post by corford »

WarmWash wrote: post #224
Lariscus wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The authors inability to understand this really makes wonder how much of the rest of their story is essentially self-inflicted.

They are jealous of the US system where you can create an LLC in one hour for $200, and by the next day be doing business with all your personal assets isolated.

UK's system is very similar too, as is Estonia's.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#239

Post by ExpertAdvisor01 »

noxvilleza wrote: post #208
ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are still a German tax resident , they are committing tax evasion . § 1 Abs. 1 KStG

What if there were multiple (2+) founders of a company, and some lived in Estonia? I think in one case they had a Croatian co-founder as well.

This will most likely result in Permanent establishment (PE) in Germany (e.g due to fixed place of business). That means Germany will tax the company anything which is attributable to the German guy.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#240

Post by nradov »

atsjie wrote: post #119
yoavm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also done it both in Sweden and the Netherlands. Sweden is a breeze if you have BankID, sure (and as you said, if the bank likes you). The Netherlands wasn't exactly a breeze — I had to book a face-to-face appointment with KVK and all the slots in Amsterdam were taken, so I took the train about an hour away.

I don't dislike that they at least want to see you in real life once tbh. I love ease of registration like anyone else, but with tax avoidance and all that, idk. Feels right to me to have at least seen yourself once.

But is it really you?
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