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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#61

Post by Sweepi »

throwaway15805 wrote: post #21

Been there too. Paying thousands of € for a notary just to read some text you wrote out loud to you is absurd. The cherry on top is the exit tax: > And no, I could not just leave instead. My first company, Freshflow, is valuable enough that walking out of Germany would trigger a massive six-figure exit tax, on gains I have not even realised, purely for the privilege of leaving. This is ostensibly there to prevent lar…

Maybe I am missing the point, but what is the alternative? You found a company in Germany, dont realize your gains, therefore dont pay taxes, then leave the country, realize your gains, and still dont pay taxes? Why should Germany or any other country allow this?

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#62

Post by bartread »

VadimPR wrote: post #8

Before Europe gets lumped in as one country, founding a company in Netherlands and Sweden, speaking from personal experience, is a breeze. Although Sweden is a bit strange in the fact that banks have as much equal say as the government authority does in you starting a company, and if they don't want you as a customer, they can simply deny the right for your company to start!

In the UK it used to be one form and a fee of £25 or something like that. I think, nowadays, that's probably just done online as well.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#63

Post by Oras »

lbriner wrote: post #33
jingpostmedia wrote: post #15

[flagged]

This does bring its own share of problems. 1000s of companies are registered in the UK with literally no checks. No address checking so people just pick a random address to register from the phone book! When it comes to tax issues etc. it turns out the company registration is meaningless. The sweet spot has to be somewhere in the middle. Starting a company shouldn't be something you expect to do in a day but it also…

There is an identity and address checks now in the UK.

Even banks are required to validate now, had my bank asking me to validate details even when i have my business for 6 years, same company, same address, and same bank account.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#65

Post by robtro »

Germany is one of the worst countries when it comes to bureaucracy nothing is fast here if you go the legal path and stay within the law (which is mostly for small people big players have different ways) and as you see everything costs a lot so if you are founding a pure online business do yourself a favor and incorporate somewhere else and if you still live in Germany look into licensing or subcontracting yourself to your company in another country it's way more flexible and you probably have Easier access to grants etc.

Another part is taxation the tax office takes your money really fast but returns can be another slog where the tax office denies legal claims again and again untill you get a lawyer etc. and it generates costs again needlessly because it's really dependent on who works on your tax records and there mood apparently.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#66

Post by preya2k »

earcar wrote: post #34
preya2k wrote: post #28

Not sure what he means with "2000€ share capital", which allegedly is locked. Typically, you can spend your "Stammkapital" for business purposes (e.g. in a GmbH). It doesn't need to stay in your bank account.

The Stammkapital was required for the UG, and it's very much locked since the whole purpose of that is to take liability.

So for a UG it's a Kommanditeinlage. But it doesn't change the fact that you can spend this money for business purposes. You just can't wire it back to yourself or pay it to yourself as a wage. Feel free to buy office furniture or company devices with it.

It's a common misunderstanding that this money needs to be reserved somewhere for liability purposes. That's not correct. You can spend it, both in a GmbH as well as in a UG. Look it up youself (e.g. https://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/stammkapital-muss-ich-das-...)

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#68

Post by johndough »

sevenzero wrote: post #5
earcar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not complicated, it is in fact quite standard here in Germany. I explain in the post how the other options are worse.

It is one of the most complicated forms. A GmbH alone is good enough in 99.99% of cases, and its usually done really quick. Also, if you believe in your product there usually isn't a reason to go for a GmbH this early. You can send invoices a lot earlier with just a eK or GbR. Its not an issue to adhere with your private money if your product isn't causing damages.

> Its not an issue to adhere with your private money if your product isn't causing damages.

Might happen really easily though. E.g. you install some package which has been compromised, infecting your software product and suddenly all your customer's systems are cryptolocked and you are on the hock for millions of €€€.

Or your db crashes in new and creative ways and your backups don't work for some reason and now your customer lost an expensive contract because critical data that was in your db is gone.

Of course, you can try to foresee every eventuality, but you will indubitably overlook something and probably never make it to market.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#69

Post by Aurornis »

stop50 wrote: post #2

For information: GmbH & Co. KG is one of the most complicated forms an company can be founded, the same goes if the inner company is an UG. Many things have to be done twice. The only good thing is that an investor or an owner are not liable with their private money.

> The only good thing is that an investor or an owner are not liable with their private money.

That’s incredibly important. More than a footnote. I would consider any other form to be non-viable if it doesn’t have such protections.

For comparison, starting an LLC in the United States is a trivial operation. I can’t even remember how long it took me to set mine up because it was a trivial event. Maybe a couple hours, mostly research? I also have to fill out an online form and pay a few dollars every year to renew the LLC.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#70

Post by CodesInChaos »

sevenzero wrote: post #20
earcar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in mine. Check the post.

So basically you go for the legal stuff only really big companies use (instead of changing once its necessary) because you dont believe in your own product and dont want to be held liable, got it.

Every sane founder uses a limited liability company (e.g. UG/GmbH). What's a bit unusual is the "& Co. KG" part.
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