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Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

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Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#371

Post by nozzlegear »

flumes_whims_ wrote: post #282
Lerc wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He goes way too far though. Especially if he actually wants change, the way he "protests" is directly damaging his own cause, since nobody is going to sympathise with harrassing children. I don't think this is a given. Just Stop Oil says that their tactics do make people hate them, but their research tells them that it still makes peoples opinions on the issues move in the direction that they want them to. Their pos…

Isn't Just Stop Oil funded by an oil heiress?

Teddy Roosevelt was the son of a wealthy and famous railroad baron, but he used that upbringing and status to rein in corporate monopolies and bust the oil barons' empires wide open, which started the decline of the gilded age. All that to say, being a wealthy, elite and privileged oil heiress doesn't necessarily mean this person doesn't want to end oil consumption.

(I don't know anything about her.)

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#372

Post by wqaatwt »

krapp wrote: post #237
ngruhn wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Successful in winning over the public.

The public was already on Luigi Mangione's side in theory. In practice however he didn't inspire further revolutionary action by the public, because they were pacified by memes. And that's why he's a failure.

Also because most people presumably aren’t really into indiscriminate irrational murder. The victim was a merely an entirely replaceable cog in an unfair system (also a human being who had a family and there is no real evidence he personally was anymore nefarious than other men in similar positions).

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#373

Post by wqaatwt »

calgoo wrote: post #249
joe_mamba wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sorry the justice system is setup to protect them, not you. By putting fear in the leaders of these companies, and showing people that yes, you CAN actually stand up to their corrupt ways and beat them because in the end they are just people, even if they don't see you that way.

Historically indiscriminate extra judicial murder has never worked as a tool for addressing societal injustice, it has been tried countless times, usually it just made things worse.

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#374

Post by wqaatwt »

bawolff wrote: post #358
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Terrorist is often a term used to describe freedom fighters Do you have an historical example?

Basically all of history. Terrorist is a term people use for people who use violence and intimidation to attempt to cause political change. Freedom fighter is a term used for people who use violence and intimidation to attempt to cause political change that you are sympathetic to. Both words have identical meanings, the only difference is if you happen to agree with the people commiting the violent acts or not.

No, not at all. Methods and targets/victims also matter. Using violence to achieve specific military objectives or as a response to violence is not the same as indiscriminate murder and terrorism.

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#375

Post by stefanfisk »

l23k4 wrote: post #365
stefanfisk wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Denmark, not some Brasilian favela. That type of violent crime extremely rare in Scandinavia. But cops wearing civilian clothes while conducting a raid is fairly normal. Especially when they want to preserve evidence which might be quickly destroyed if the suspect sees them coming.

> This is Denmark, not some Brasilian favela Yet they're dressed exactly like a hit squad in a Brazilian favela! >Especially when they want to preserve evidence which might be quickly destroyed if the suspect sees them coming. Somehow cops elsewhere manage this just fine in appropriate attire.

They're also dressed exactly like a group of random middle aged men.

Naturally, getting raided is scary as fuck. And them being plain clothed certainly doesn't make it less so. But based on the part of the video which he chose to shared I don't see why one would suspect anyone other than the police. Had they been out to kill him it would have been easier to just go in blasting instead of yelling while using a battering ram.

Hit squads are truly exotic here. Plain clothes police raids are not, although the norm is for them to be uniformed. I have no idea on why they chose to be plain clothed instead of uniformed on this occasion, but I can't see why we would attribute it to "cosplaying as some sort of a hit squad". Another possibility, which I believe is somewhat common, is that they can take him away without making him look like a criminal in the eyes of his neighbors.

Where in Europe are you from? I get the impression that you are used to a very different kind of society.

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#376

Post by wqaatwt »

dmurray wrote: post #169
pembrook wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think he goes too far at all. If politicians are attempting to undermine your children’s right to privacy forever , and yet these same politicians don’t like when this is being done to their own children…it shows either an astonishing level of hypocrisy and/or stupidity. Europe is filled with these types of authoritarian urbanites, who make decisions from an elitist “i know what’s best for you” attitude while…

Even if you don't think he goes too far ethically , you can probably agree that it's reasonable for the police to intervene once he's interfering with the cars of government ministers.

By the same standard it would be reasonable to intervene when politicians are indiscriminately interfering with personal communications devices of everyone without any judicial oversight?

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#377

Post by wqaatwt »

pluralmonad wrote: post #338
gaiagraphia wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would like the police to come down hard on unauthorised and unregulated chemists. Not a fan of dealers being tax exempt, either, given the negative externalities their services provide.

Why fuss over "unregulated" chemists when the vast majority of harms come directly from officially licensed and regulated industry? I don't think cannabis dealers have ever poisoned entire towns or ecosystems. The facade of regulated safety must be more important.

Why fuss over anyone committing lesser harm when there is something worse happening somewhere else?

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#378

Post by wqaatwt »

dataflow wrote: post #265
bondarchuk wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that complicated. Minister wants to remove citizens privacy. Protester invades privacy of minister in response. On the one hand I agree that gps-tracking is not exactly the same as analyzing people's messages, on the other hand one can often infer whereabouts through messaging services indirectly or even directly such as when people share their gps location with one another (a feature that e.g. whatsapp has)…

> It's not that complicated. Minister wants to remove citizens privacy. Protester invades privacy of minister in response. "It's not that complicated"... indeed? Privacy was a thing long before encryption even existed. So were stalking, wiretapping, etc. That whole time, judicial warrants had always been legally and practically adequate for obtaining and reviewing evidence that was physically accessible. (And for arr…

> So were stalking, wiretapping, etc. That whole time, judicial warrants had

Those things were costly and didn’t scale very well. Which is why it was more tolerable.

Without encryption and with legally required backdoors the authorities can just “wiretap” everyone just in case they might commit a crime. That is what the Danish government wants to do by pushing ChatControl in the EU. There is absolutely nothing crazy about that and they are perfectly transparent about what they are doing. Most sensible people believe that that’s a too high cost.

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#379

Post by [deleted] »

dataflow wrote: post #356
bondarchuk wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That whole time, judicial warrants had always been legally and practically adequate for obtaining and reviewing evidence that was physically accessible. Certainly not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrecy_of_correspondence

You're telling me that in Denmark they can't open your letters even with a judicial order? The Danish constitution also mentions privacy, in the form of paragraph 72 that stipulates that the confiscation and examination of letters and other papers; as well the interception of postal-, telegraph- and telephone communication cannot be done without a judicial order. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_law_in_Denmark

[deleted]

Re: Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police

#380

Post by JumpCrisscross »

basilikum wrote: post #354
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is a matter of which side of the fence Oft repeated but untrue. Terrorism, empirically, doesn’t work. Non-violent protest, and armed insurrection (aimed at the state, not its population) do. Sometimes freedom fighters can benefit from terrorism. But they are distinct strategies with separate targets.

The Taliban's terrorism very much did work.

Not really. The Taliban’s attacks on civilians didn’t help their cause. They found success when they started acting as a more-competent government than our fucks in Kabul. If we want to debate whether the Taliban under occupation had any success with its terrorist tactics, I guess I’d concede that one man’s terrorist is another’s guerrilla fighter. But even then, guerilla tactics rely on a sympathetic local population. So a guerrilla team bombing civilians is undermining its own cause.
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