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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#251

Post by eudamoniac »

lbriner wrote: post #100

They have enough employees to build native apps that run super quick but are still seduced by the web portability argument which, as we all know, is mostly untrue even now and which introduces all kinds of non-deterministic latencies/errors, which cannot all be handled neatly. To be honest, this is the same in almost all apps that have any more than 10 developers working on them (my estimate!). Death by dependencies…

The platform is not the issue. Competent engineering teams could blow this out of the water with a single threaded jquery web app.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#252

Post by jarjoura »

lbriner wrote: post #100

They have enough employees to build native apps that run super quick but are still seduced by the web portability argument which, as we all know, is mostly untrue even now and which introduces all kinds of non-deterministic latencies/errors, which cannot all be handled neatly. To be honest, this is the same in almost all apps that have any more than 10 developers working on them (my estimate!). Death by dependencies…

Native software is incredibly difficult to build well.

There are at least 4 platforms they would need to support: Win, Mac, iPhone, and Android.

That's 4 different software engineers at least, just for the frontend.

Then, there's various backend engineers, who could be shared, yes, but not always. Android's weird runtime requirements are bespoke enough that just because the database is written in C++, doesn't mean it's the same C++ database as what the Windows backend would use.

Finally, there's the designers, who end up consolidating all the unique things about each native platform into a common design language so they can have a shared vision on all of the platforms. So engineers end up building UI that works identically on all 4 platforms, and you're basically building a bespoke "browser" at that point.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#254

Post by esikich »

impendia wrote: post #227
thewebguyd wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand there are some missing features compared to the old one There are some people that use Outlook for...well I'm not sure what but things that go way beyond email and calendar. I've been using the web app for several years now, it's fine. When I was new in IT, I always struggled to see what the big deal was with Outlook desktop. The web mail has folders, rules, shared mailbox support, integrated calendar,…

> People treat email has a permanent data store. Is this strange? I'll be trying to solve some problem, half-remember an email conversation from several years ago on something relevant, and want to look it up. This feels like the most natural thing in the world to me, and it's not like the ability to save emails is new. Why, exactly, would a forced change of habits be for my own good?

No, not conversations, actual data. Think reports, invoices, large PDFs, etc. Emailing files to yourself, that sort of thing. Then they end up with multiple PSTs.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#255

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

mawadev wrote: post #89

If i was in charge at MS, I'd go full return to monke and put a lot of devs into making winforms work great with 4k and high DPI. Then rebuild the most critical apps with winforms using a new layouting engine and some wpf concepts carried over. Nothing new or fancy, just old but gold.

History shows that there have been many Microsoft executives with a vision of building a new, perfect GUI toolkit. They all were released half done and quasi supported to this day.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#256

Post by drudolph914 »

I will say, a positive thing that has come out of msft's 20ish year run of consistent incompetence and piss poor leadership, is that there are quite a few former msft engineers (now retired) that are posting great lectures and educational content on youtube.

also, idk when, but the talent level of a "msft engineer" from 90s to early 2000s feels like they runs laps around the msft engineers of today. it's hard to not feel that the suits cannibalized what was at one point an extremely profitable company with great engineering culture for nothing but shortsighted gains

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#257

Post by esikich »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #216
beart wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As slow as Windows is (very), once you start adding the corporate security tools on top of it (Crowdstrike) and have to deal with a slow and buggy corporate DNS system, it just becomes unusable. The only way I can do anything timely now is through WSL.

Yeah, I'm worried about the day when infosec turns it's eye toward WSL. So far they have turned a blind eye, but just wait until someone cooks up an exploit targeting WSL...

In my experience they just block it in corporate environments.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#258

Post by pm3003 »

esikich wrote: post #254
impendia wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People treat email has a permanent data store. Is this strange? I'll be trying to solve some problem, half-remember an email conversation from several years ago on something relevant, and want to look it up. This feels like the most natural thing in the world to me, and it's not like the ability to save emails is new. Why, exactly, would a forced change of habits be for my own good?

No, not conversations, actual data. Think reports, invoices, large PDFs, etc. Emailing files to yourself, that sort of thing. Then they end up with multiple PSTs.

Not even counting Sharepoint syncs...

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#260

Post by ahartmetz »

patates wrote: post #8

> Outlook is based on WebView2, and like all web apps, it’s slow Fastmail also has a web based email client, which is as fast as (if not faster than) Outlook Classic. The new Outlook is just bad. Load order is wrong, it renders everything on every window, loads unnecessary data, etc. Plain annoying.

The decision to use web technology and the decision to not give a shit about performance (or usability for that matter, unstyled text as buttons anyone?) are often made together, even though they are theoretically independent.
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