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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

581–590 of 633 posts

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#581
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the problem is that we've been given the excuse of market fundamentalism for the past several decades on the way down, as most everyone lost their middle class jobs, wages stagnated, etc. Now we're supposed to accept some last ditch attempt at protectionism based on directly blocking choices for consumers, when the US manufacturers aren't even really competing? It just seems like open hypocrisy. At this point the…

Every single load of bullshit shuffled into our faces has been presented as a benefit to consumers. Google gives away their search and Gmail for free, don't you know? So it can't possibly be a monopoly. And so on. It's just propaganda. It's bullshit. That's not the way that you determine whether firms have excess market power, and this fraud (called "the consumer welfare standard") was the deliberate choice of right-…

This doesn't imply the opposite though - something that is a detriment to consumers won't necessarily be a good thing.

I feel like you're conflating two things here. The "consumer welfare standard" was indeed a terrible scam, neutralized antitrust enforcement, and basically put us in the current situation where many "choices" we have consist of two megacorps that both suck. Just like the (IIRC) Bush-era FCC declaration that "competition" between DSL and Cable was good enough, and rolled back the CLEC/ILEC dynamic.. We're in full agreement there!

But the original point I was making was about things that actually did benefit consumers. Lower prices and more competition (from foreign companies) DO benefit consumers. The problem is that they harm the part of our economy whereby those consumers get incomes. So they're a race to the bottom.

And my point there is that it's a bit hollow to be racing to the bottom for thirty years, smashing one blue collar industry after another, and then when we finally get to cars it's like oh no, time for some protectionist policy. It might be great for the people still in that industry, but hypocritical to everyone else who saw their industry destroyed but are now prevented from having less expensive cars.

As I said, with things this far gone, the only thing that makes sense to me is directly subsidizing purchases from domestic industry (positive incentive), rather than continuing to prevent competition (negative incentive). The latter reeks of the same monopolistic captive-market consolidation we've seen from the destruction of antitrust in general.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily if you take immigration into account.

A society replaced by immigrants is no longer that same society. My original point still stands.

Whereas a society replaced by children...

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#583
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cases it seems (at least to me and colleagues) to be turning out that picking best intelligence is a better option than picking better intelligence / dollar, assuming you can afford the cost. At least on interesting problems. If you’re doing generic web dev work, probably not the case.

Absolutely agree with this. As Louis Rossmann recently pointed out, it's the difference between a correct answer and a wrong answer; the correct answer is worth a good amount, while the wrong answer is worth nothing. Under this metric, for harder tasks, the most intelligent model is best per dollar.

People are wasting tokens with perfectly fine models by not planning effectively. Anyone who says Opus is not capable of doing what Fable can probably are not planning effectively and just praying to the one shot gods.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#584
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of flippant remark that does the gravity of the situation a disservice. Nobody burns witches out of the blue one day, they do it because they figured out that burning witches makes everyone afraid to do anything that could be remotely construed as witchcraft, and they all start being good little church attendees. So I hate to break it to you but you're not fighting powers-that-be who are just bumblin…

> You're fighting powers-that-be who did the analysis and decided that being like China was the right way to go Not at all. If they decided to be like China, then that would include the benefits. They're nothing like China. Xi isn't siphoning hundreds of billions to his personal account through $XI coin. He isn't giving the reigns of the country to his tech CEO buddies. He isn't destroying scientific institutions and…

I agree actually, we're trending towards China in some ways and not in others. I was just pointing out that the ways we're trending towards China are driven by people who did a bit more analysis than OP is giving them credit for. Since your real disagreement is with OP, I'll bow out of this one.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#585
post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me? I didn't vote for the orange Nazi

Because you think by voting for the other person AI companies and USA government wouldn't misuse all the data they hoard?

Why do you think I like them or support those actions?

Do you support everything the Klingon Empire does? That doesn't seem like the Worf I know. The Worf I know can distinguish the people of a civilization from the leaders of their societies. To conflate them just creates the problems you are criticizing

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#586
post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

I wish we were becoming like china; it feels a lot more like big brother from 1984.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#587
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is slowly becoming more like China. Hah, if only. Then at least it would see some of the benefits too. Instead, it's making sure to only copy all of the downsides, with zero of the upsides.

This is the kind of flippant remark that does the gravity of the situation a disservice. Nobody burns witches out of the blue one day, they do it because they figured out that burning witches makes everyone afraid to do anything that could be remotely construed as witchcraft, and they all start being good little church attendees. So I hate to break it to you but you're not fighting powers-that-be who are just bumblin…

> who did the analysis and decided that being like China was the right way to go

But again, they are not deciding to be like china, which implies a degree of competency and care for the population. This is just corruption.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#588
post #559
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is slowly becoming more like China. Hah, if only. Then at least it would see some of the benefits too. Instead, it's making sure to only copy all of the downsides, with zero of the upsides.

Bro, you have "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. China is a totalitarian state not comparable to the US. Take this from a non-US citizen. There maybe some backsliding or ppl may think things are worsening in the US, but US citizens always have the power to make things right, coz they are free and they can bear arms.

> coz they are free and they can bear arms.

The propaganda about ourselves we sold the world has been much more effective than the rights we've been sold ourselves. I would prefer material rights and competent governance to either "freedom" (whatever the hell that refers to) or the ability to buy guns we're barely allowed to use.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP would never dream of giving the state's control to tech CEOs.

You just need to think outside the box: the CCP is big tech, not Congress. The CCP (big tech in the analogy) would never dream of giving control to congress.

This is why they can run their society with such competency, though. All we got are the stupidest billionaires the world can imagine and their servile lapdogs in congress

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#590
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made Qwen respond it was made by Google with a simple Chinese greeting. But also, I made Sonnet introduce itself as made by OpenAI.. Prompt: 你好!用一句话介绍你自己。 Sonnet in around 5% of resplies: 你好!我是 **ChatGPT**,一个由 OpenAI 开发的 AI 助手,致力于回答问题、提供信息和帮助解决各种问题。有什么我可以帮你的吗? Found it like a month ago and it kept working, I wonder if it will stop after this comment.

5% is very low probability to get a hit. I tried with all ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude and Grok but they all answered correctly :’( Too sad, I want to have the fun.

doing 50 API queries to Sonnet of this length is not that expensive..
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