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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#481
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cases it seems (at least to me and colleagues) to be turning out that picking best intelligence is a better option than picking better intelligence / dollar, assuming you can afford the cost. At least on interesting problems. If you’re doing generic web dev work, probably not the case.

Absolutely agree with this. As Louis Rossmann recently pointed out, it's the difference between a correct answer and a wrong answer; the correct answer is worth a good amount, while the wrong answer is worth nothing. Under this metric, for harder tasks, the most intelligent model is best per dollar.

That's why experience + cost effective model is IMO the best combination.

Experience allows you to design the skeleton where the implementation details are often inconsequential. There are relatively few scenarios where an LLM would need more guidance to render an outcome, but even dumb local models can do that.

Building a simple UI component vs an efficient multi-threaded bidirectional socket implementation (both examples of things I did recently with DeepSeek flash).

Angular can only be written in one way so the UI was trivial. I know the architecture for the socket implementation and the trade offs for various approaches, so I sketch out the implementation and get DeepSeek to complete it (error handling, keepalive messages, timeouts, etc).

I don't think I would have saved much time if I just asked Fable to "make the socket implementation" but even if it got it right the first time, it would have only saved me a few minutes given that's how long it took to write any way.

Even in more conventional applications, Node.js / React CRUD applications - "write a graphql query for blah" "add an endpoint to run query" "add validation to endpoint" are all trivial for DeepSeek flash. In most of these cases, I have found you're constrained by context window size because these are rarely well architected applications.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#482
post #17
post #2

> Anthropic said it identified a campaign by DeepSeek and two other Chinese AI labs to illicitly extract capabilities from its Claude AI platform to improve their own models Oh, won’t someone think of the poor mass copyright infringers.

I made Qwen respond it was made by Google with a simple Chinese greeting. But also, I made Sonnet introduce itself as made by OpenAI.. Prompt: 你好!用一句话介绍你自己。 Sonnet in around 5% of resplies: 你好!我是 **ChatGPT**,一个由 OpenAI 开发的 AI 助手,致力于回答问题、提供信息和帮助解决各种问题。有什么我可以帮你的吗? Found it like a month ago and it kept working, I wonder if it will stop after this comment.

5% is very low probability to get a hit. I tried with all ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude and Grok but they all answered correctly :’(

Too sad, I want to have the fun.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#483
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I spoke freely about how I feel about the US right now If you read my comment as defending the US then you've misread. Also, you're probably just as pissed as 60% of Americans > It is inconsequential if the US or China have my data Sure it does. The way each distributes data between government and industry has some differences. So too does the different disinformation campaigns each country is running against Au…

> you're probably just as pissed as 60% of Americans Yet you voted for it

To be fair, most of their votes don't actually count.

And even with our westminster system, One nation has swept the right wing. Considering how many seats they will likely get in the next election, my high horse has shrunk a fair bit.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#484

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

Developers claiming their valuable data was “stolen” to train models is so dramatic.

I'd be fine if it cut both ways. It shouldn't be legal for works distributed by people under licenses that would prohibit derivative work whilst if I reverse engineered a Nintendo Switch 2 with an LLM I'd be sent to the underworld.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

This was my experience too. I asked fable to implement a (quite complex, novel) CRDT engine. It did fantastic work for the 3 days I had access to it. The spec it wrote is exactly what I want. It used prototypes and examples to figure out some hard problems and answer a lot of complex design questions. Claude Opus has been lumbering along over the last week trying to turn what it did into a useful library. As far as I…

I had a similar experience. For complex maths in my 3d engine around IK, made more progress in those 3 days than I would’ve done in weeks.

I recently discovered though that ChatGPT 5.5 Pro is almost as smart but only available to me via the ChatGPT app. I’ve been having it read my code and having Opus 4.8 use the ChatGPT app to collaborate. It’s a step down but its a temporary stopgap for complex problems.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#486
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mimo 2.5 pro is the best intelligence / dollar

In most cases it seems (at least to me and colleagues) to be turning out that picking best intelligence is a better option than picking better intelligence / dollar, assuming you can afford the cost. At least on interesting problems. If you’re doing generic web dev work, probably not the case.

> At least on interesting problems.

What fraction of your work is "interesting problems", and what field do you work in?

> If you’re doing generic web dev work, probably not the case

I have a feeling the bulk of most people's work is "generic $X work." My take is people should figure out their mix of interesting vs boring work, and optimize accordingly. Flash models also tend to much faster,

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#487
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need to step foot on US soil for the US to be a risk to you c.f. Kim Dotcom

The same Kim Dotcom who was arrested in Germany, extradited from Thailand to Germany, and most recently has been parroting Russian propaganda points about Ukraine? The same one whom the New Zealand legal system has allowed to exhaust every legal avenue and remains free to this day? There are much better examples to use to showcase the US's extrajudicial/international reach than this guy.

>and most recently has been parroting Russian propaganda points about Ukraine

Yeah but is that a jailable offense though? What about his freedom of speech?

Or should we just lock up everyone who says things we don't like?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

Mimo 2.5 pro is the best intelligence / dollar

It is since they adopted DeepSeek’s pricing, although it’s not as good about caching as DeepSeek.

UltraSpeed will change how you think about agentic coding.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

> makes me wish my country was like China I admire their governance ability to have long term plans. The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane. The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.

>The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.

In which major democratic western country don't the elites get wealthier? In fact, the top 10% asset owners saw the biggest post-covid recovery, which the rest stagnated or are in decline. Not defending China but are own oligarchs are just as savvy at enriching themselves while screwing us over.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#490

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

> As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse? Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is s…

USA is an adversarial country to everyone in 2026.
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