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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#431

Post by hereme888 »

janalsncm wrote: post #374
hereme888 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the key difference: from the U.S. The primary goal is growth of wealth and power for the country, and close loopholes whereby enemy nations steal even more from America.

Your original comment implied that stealing American IP and creating shell companies is “CCP-inspired behavior”. This suggests there is some high minded Rule of Law based justification. Now you are saying that stealing IP was never the problem, and actually the issue is anything that stands in the way of the US gaining wealth and power.

Theft is theft. My argument is re: the White House's actions.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#432

Post by inigyou »

_heimdall wrote: post #422
fc417fc802 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its also worth noting we don't really have free markets in the US anyway. That entirely depends on what is meant by the term. Markets that are largely free appear (IMO) to have won out worldwide quite some time ago.

The definition matters for sure. IMO, markets (like speech) are either free or they aren't. We have a lot of government intervention in markets today. From subsidies to tax incentives to regulations and import tariffs, markets are much more controlled than it seems on the surface.

A free market can't exist without heavy government interference (property rights to start with) but not all markers with heavy government interference are free, either

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#433

Post by inigyou »

mthoms wrote: post #227
Matl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

It’s the same logic behind the Trump tariff regime: “We love capitalism and free markets, except when we’re losing at it”.

Capitalism and free markets are contradictory systems, you can't have both

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#434

Post by inigyou »

hereme888 wrote: post #291
Matl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

DeepSeek rose to fame through stolen IP from U.S., and created shell companies to bypass U.S. law. Typical CCP-inspired behavior. The free world needs protection from abusers. I'm sure there's a ton of other abuses they've committed as they race to become China's preferred LLM.

So did OpenAI, we should ban it

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#435

Post by inigyou »

hereme888 wrote: post #431
janalsncm wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your original comment implied that stealing American IP and creating shell companies is “CCP-inspired behavior”. This suggests there is some high minded Rule of Law based justification. Now you are saying that stealing IP was never the problem, and actually the issue is anything that stands in the way of the US gaining wealth and power.

Theft is theft. My argument is re: the White House's actions.

Theft is theft, and copyright infringement is copyright infringement, which is distinct from theft.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#436

Post by eru »

greenavocado wrote: post #418
eru wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China. PR China is still pretty poor (around 31k$ gdp per capita adjusted for purchasing power) and its growth has lost a bit of steam recently. You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore.

> You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore. Total fertility rate for all of those countries is close to 1.0, including China's. They are dying societies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer... suggests Chad and Somalia and DR Congo are the most vibrant societies by that metric.

You might want to compare Singapore with a city like NYC or London, not with a territorial state. It's pretty normal around the world for cities to be replenished mainly by people moving in.

(Of course, to be fair you then also need to compare GDP per capita against other cities. And they usually do a lot better than territorial countries that include a lot of hinterland.)

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#437

Post by inigyou »

ranyume wrote: post #379
ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

The CCP would never dream of giving the state's control to tech CEOs.

You just need to think outside the box: the CCP is big tech, not Congress. The CCP (big tech in the analogy) would never dream of giving control to congress.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#438

Post by inigyou »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #254
gypsy_boots wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!" Perhaps the question should instead be "Why are these Western AI companies getting insane valuations on dubious ROI, and how can these Chinese models run on…

>"Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!" I feel like that is way over simplified. I do not trust the American government. I do not trust the Chinese government. As an American, I believe the Chinese government has a longer and broader history of stealing intellectual property and far less checks and balances than the American government. The current American administration will be gone soon…

stealing intellectual property == producing higher quality goods for cheaper, because the IP owners are not paid for it

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#439

Post by inigyou »

betaby wrote: post #206
FuckButtons wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not like this is a new tactic, china has been very successful at wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies in many sectors of the economy.

> wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies The same tactic is in the USA. Like every new AI datacenter has ~10 tax waiver + explicit subsidies + favorable loans, etc, etc.

These are done with the intention of getting kickbacks, not wiping out competition

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#440

Post by inigyou »

lbreakjai wrote: post #235
betaby wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies The same tactic is in the USA. Like every new AI datacenter has ~10 tax waiver + explicit subsidies + favorable loans, etc, etc.

As always, the US has a government removing red tape to foster innovation, while China has a regime , unfairly picking winners, to hurt and subvert the West.

Our Blessed Homeland

Their Barbarous Wastes

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