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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#371

Post by godelski »

apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

  > As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data
I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse?

Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is shitty either way but isn't data taken by an adversarial country a worse situation?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#372

Post by HerbManic »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #339
azinman2 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is already going as hard as they can on their own GPUs. When has availability of non-Chinese tech in China meant China didn't ultimately come up with homegrown replacements?

It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

Not only x86 chips, they are going in fairly hard on Risc V and Loongarch (MIPS/Risc V inspired ISA). Risc V is still growing trying to catch up to ARM, while Loongarch LA664/LA864 chips are much closer to x86 performance than other options. They still are many years behind but not as far as you would expect.

GPU's are still a fair way behind with Moore Threads S80 being a better example of their high end. I suspect they have some major driver issues because they current benchmark far below what that silicon should be able to do. https://en.mthreads.com/product/S80

There is also the pressure to have them innovate on older process nodes so they can make this stuff domestically. For instance Huawei is doing what they call 'logic folding' which is basically just stacking dies in a way that ends up reducing the overall size of chip features. Not sure how it addresses thermals but it is a cool idea.

Sorry this article is a bit of LLM rubbish but you get the point - https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/huawei-logic-folding-moores-la...

China is hungry and that is driving them to take these moon shots, they may just make it.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#373

Post by ekianjo »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #345
janalsncm wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free Market vs. planned economy was always mostly talking points, not a consistent ideology imo. Even during the Cold War, American farms were heavily subsidized. The abundant supermarkets were not a product of free markets, they were a propaganda piece. Today the US is pretty far from being a free market. Tax deductions are subsidies. Industry subsidies fund things on the front end, and bailouts are essentially subs…

Most of the things you list don't make a market non-free. A free market can still have government regulation and distortion. In fact it requires it otherwise it will be captured by large players in short order and become non-free as a result. The insulin example I agree is non-free. More generally the entire medical sector is only somewhat free. However I'm not sure that's a bad thing given the stakes and the history…

> A free market can still have government regulation and distortion

The question is "how much" rather than a binary consideration. With the size of the government in most countries, we are way past what would be considered a marginal influence.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#374

Post by janalsncm »

hereme888 wrote: post #337
janalsncm wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI and Anthropic also rose to fame from stolen IP from the US. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/05/nx-s1-5529404/anthropic-settl...

That's the key difference: from the U.S. The primary goal is growth of wealth and power for the country, and close loopholes whereby enemy nations steal even more from America.

Your original comment implied that stealing American IP and creating shell companies is “CCP-inspired behavior”. This suggests there is some high minded Rule of Law based justification.

Now you are saying that stealing IP was never the problem, and actually the issue is anything that stands in the way of the US gaining wealth and power.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#375

Post by re-thc »

torginus wrote: post #160
em500 wrote: post #18

Noteworthy that Z.ai, maker of the just released near-frontier GLM 5.2, has already been on the Entity List since Jan 2025[1]. Being on the Entity List does not mean all trade is forbidden. Broadly speaking it means American companies and individuals are not allowed sell them goods and services, but they are still allowed to buy from them and pay them. AFAIK the Chinese AI companies barely depend on US goods and serv…

How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy lets say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller? Its not even circumventing the rules, its the natural thing to do. For that matter, does (only) NVIDIA make datacenter cards? When I buy a gaming card, I dont buy from NVIDIA, I buy from an integrator, like Gigabyte, who work with a company like Foxconn to make the cards.

> How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy let's say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller?

In theory, the whole chain has to comply. And if you don't you get fined etc. So the local reseller would risk not be able to resell.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#376

Post by stephen_g »

godelski wrote: post #371
apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

> As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse? Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is s…

Most Aussies aren't really worried about China... China remains our largest trading partner, and polling shows less than half of Australians think the AUKUS alliance (which includes the nuclear subs) makes our region safer.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#377

Post by papascrubs »

dakolli wrote: post #225
sarjann wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text autocomplete can write code, carry out actions (tool calls) and launch cyber attacks. It very much is a matter of national security.

You're actually delusional if you think cyber capabilities of nation states have increased by the development of llms..

I don't work for a nation state, but I work for a large financial that requires adversarial testing and it's absolutely increased the ability to operate and attack these environments. The floor is definitely easier to reach at a minimum. Vulns and 0days are far easier to exploit, time to exploitation from the release of vulns is nearing zero, largely aided by LLM reverse engineering -- why wouldn't this apply to nation state level adversaries?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#378

Post by cwel »

teravor wrote: post #353
cwel wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, whether or not the engineers are Chinese is the deciding factor. as long as Nicklas Backstrom is designing the EV, its all good. Or in other words, Chinese scary!

> Chinese scary! Chinese nationals should be assumed to act on behalf of China, it really isn't difficult to understand even for pathologically empathetic people.

> Chinese nationals should be assumed to act on behalf of China

I acknowledged this, you quoted it.

> it really isn't difficult to understand...

Where does 'it' end? Is the subsidiary not operating at the behest of their parent? I need to know when it's safe to no longer be scared.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#379

Post by ranyume »

ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

The CCP would never dream of giving the state's control to tech CEOs.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#380

Post by fc417fc802 »

janalsncm wrote: post #356
fc417fc802 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the things you list don't make a market non-free. A free market can still have government regulation and distortion. In fact it requires it otherwise it will be captured by large players in short order and become non-free as a result. The insulin example I agree is non-free. More generally the entire medical sector is only somewhat free. However I'm not sure that's a bad thing given the stakes and the history…

> A free market can still have government regulation and distortion. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/free-market?q=free+market > an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies. By definition, free markets do not have government regulation. If you have an alternative definition of “free market” please fee…

I think you're misinterpreting the intent of what you quoted. I also think the phrasing of that definition is quite sloppy, being prone to exactly the sort of misunderstanding we see here.

For a market to be stable, fair, and free of monopolies government intervention is required. I don't think that fact is at all controversial. So already the definition you've quoted there has, if read literally, set up a scenario that is impossible to realize.

A free market is one where regulations are broad and are applied to the players evenly. A subsidy that applies to a sector as a whole (ex solar panels) is an example of such.

Many of the agricultural subsidies are much more targeted than that. However the regulator needs to maintain the stability of the entire system as a whole, and to that end food is not some luxury good that can be subject to shortages without major consequences. A tradeoff has to be made, either for more market regulation or significantly less market stability. Market participants in danger of starvation not known for exhibiting reasonable, well thought out behavior.

Similar to free speech, the free market is better seen as a vague guiding ideal rather than an absolute and objective description of a system. It's illegal in the US to make credible threats of violence towards someone. Can that fact be taken on its own to mean that we don't enjoy freedom of speech?

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