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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#411

Post by hsuduebc2 »

dakolli wrote: post #26
Havoc wrote: post #19

The whole thing seems like nonsensical. Their website literally has chinese characters on it even in english mode and everyone under the sun including crappy money talk show hosts know them as the chinese player that undercut western players. It's not exactly a secret. You'd think anyone with two brain cells and confidential data could apply some judgement of their own...

I trust Chinese companies with my data far more than American companies.

I have quite similiar stance, mostly because China usually intervenes much less than US in here. Their interest is primarily elsewhere.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#412

Post by cisrockandroll »

tyrust wrote: post #403
ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

> talks of nationalizing companies What is this referring to?

https://apnews.com/article/bernie-sanders-ai-public-ownershi...

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#413

Post by matheusmoreira »

eru wrote: post #405
matheusmoreira wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

> It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China. PR China is still pretty poor (around 31k$ gdp per capita adjusted for purchasing power) and its growth has lost a bit of steam recently. You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore.

> 31k$ gdp per capita

My country is currently at about a third of that.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#414

Post by deaux »

r14c wrote: post #368
_carbyau_ wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> makes me wish my country was like China I admire their governance ability to have long term plans. The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane. The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.

> The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring Our oligarchs do that too and all we get in return is declining infrastructure and paranoia.

Classic case of getting downvoted solely because it's a negative comparison to China. The letter for letter exact same comment in a thread only about the US on here, that doesn't mention China, would get upvoted.

You are, of course, right. All of the downsides with none of the benefits.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#415

Post by pranavj »

em500 wrote: post #18

Noteworthy that Z.ai, maker of the just released near-frontier GLM 5.2, has already been on the Entity List since Jan 2025[1]. Being on the Entity List does not mean all trade is forbidden. Broadly speaking it means American companies and individuals are not allowed sell them goods and services, but they are still allowed to buy from them and pay them. AFAIK the Chinese AI companies barely depend on US goods and serv…

Good context. And it shows the limit of this kind of control: the model at the top of the open-weights index this week comes from a lab already on that list, and that changes nothing about whether I can run it. Once weights are on Hugging Face the download doesn't care about an Entity List. Chip export controls bite. Weight controls mostly can't.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#416

Post by deaux »

ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

> The US is slowly becoming more like China.

Hah, if only. Then at least it would see some of the benefits too. Instead, it's making sure to only copy all of the downsides, with zero of the upsides.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#417

Post by throwburn202605 »

ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

In some ways its hard to differentiate between big tech and the national security complex, where execs are being sworn into the military

https://www.army.mil/article/286317/army_launches_detachment...

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#418

Post by greenavocado »

eru wrote: post #405
matheusmoreira wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

> It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China. PR China is still pretty poor (around 31k$ gdp per capita adjusted for purchasing power) and its growth has lost a bit of steam recently. You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore.

> You should wish your country to be more like Taiwan or South Korea. Or Singapore.

Total fertility rate for all of those countries is close to 1.0, including China's. They are dying societies.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#419

Post by Rover222 »

apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

Developers claiming their valuable data was “stolen” to train models is so dramatic.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#420

Post by skissane »

janalsncm wrote: post #288
torginus wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy lets say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller? Its not even circumventing the rules, its the natural thing to do. For that matter, does (only) NVIDIA make datacenter cards? When I buy a gaming card, I dont buy from NVIDIA, I buy from an integrator, like Gigabyte, who work with a company like Foxconn to make the cards.

The export restrictions only apply to certain GPU models, which are the more recent powerful ones used for training tasks. So the H100, B100 etc. are banned along with 4090, 5090. Nvidia has downgraded chips that aren’t banned. H100 is banned, H800 is allowed. A100 is banned, A800 is allowed. But the sale has a tariff attached. That’s all how it’s supposed to work. In practice companies probably circumvent the restri…

> That’s all how it’s supposed to work. In practice companies probably circumvent the restrictions.

Ex-colleague of mine told me he used to work for this company in UAE (he told me this story 15+ years ago, so he worked there even before that). He said it took him months of working there before he discovered that their entire business was evading US sanctions against Iran-they’d order servers/etc from the US, tell the US vendor they were for use locally in UAE, then ship them straight across the Gulf. The UAE government presumably knew this was happening but chose to turn a blind eye; the US government likely did too, but struggled to tell which orders/purchasers were legitimate and which were sanctions-evaders, plus likely was worried about enforcement action causing issues in the US-UAE diplomatic relationship.

I’m sure there are similar businesses out there who specialise in evading US sanctions on China.

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