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Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

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Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#481

Post by _DeadFred_ »

rayiner wrote: post #471
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some numbers https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... "The income tax base captures 60 % of economic income of the top 1 % of wealth-holders.". I would love if only 60% of my income was taxed. Heck I'm now even taxed on used junk I sell using Paypal (that I bought with taxed income dollars and paid sales tax on). But a tax that includes that other 40% of the top 1%'s economic income, guys, we c…

That article actually proves the opposite of what you’re saying: “For the top 1 %, new borrowing each year is fairly small: 1–2 % of economic income. ‘Buy, borrow, die’ is not a dominant tax avoidance strategy for the rich.” OP above said that billionaires pay for their lifestyle by taking loans they never pay lack, and the article says that isn’t a common approach. > 1-2% of 100 million is 1-2 million dollars a year…

Great, we are in agreement. It is happening, to the tune of billions of dollars, and we both are fine with it being taxed.

1-2% of 100 million is 1-2 million dollars a year untaxed benefit (44x median income). That is substantial benefit for someone to receive. They are benefiting from buy, borrow, die. You asked for proof, I gave you proof that it is happening and is providing a substantial unfunded lifestyle (44x median income is a substantial income).

Hopefully I won't see further posts from you saying it isn't happening/we don't need to tax it/we aren't loosing revenue. You agree it is happening, and you are ok with taxing it. You don't think it will fund the entire budget. OK. But we have multiple tax streams that don't fund the entire budget, and when patterns shift, we address it, such as now tracking/taxing paypal payments and in the future loans on unrealized gains.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#482

Post by freejazz »

AngryData wrote: post #426
freejazz wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, why not make up a bunch of lies?

Or why not make an actual plan to improve things and solve problems instead of throwing in the towel before you even start? It also doesn't help to be a prosecuting attorney that extorted poor people for judicial profit. Only the wealthy view prosecutors as good people.

>Or why not make an actual plan to improve things and solve problems instead of throwing in the towel before you even start?

I don't know, you tell me? According to you it's reasonable enough in this scenario.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#483

Post by freejazz »

AngryData wrote: post #470
newtonianrules wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has Trump done that makes a meaningful positive difference in the lives of people making less than $250k/year?

I never said he did, I never said I support him or anything he does. But Trump being a complete idiot doesn't make Kamala not shitty and uninspiring to voters.

> But Trump being a complete idiot doesn't make Kamala not shitty and uninspiring to voters

Okay, and? Did anyone even dispute that?

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#485

Post by fl4regun »

carlosjobim wrote: post #454
fl4regun wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you miss my point entirely. People are a product of their environment. Just because YOU or I don't fall down this trap doesn't mean our friends or family or people in our communities won't. In my country we charge sales tax on processed foods but not on fresh foods. It's because we can make the good choice easier and the bad choice harder. We shouldn't be doing the opposite, then laying all the responsibility on indi…

Maturity is understanding that no matter who is to blame for the situation you are in or the problems you have, you as an individual are most of the time the only one who can fix your problems. Nothing is more effective than a determined person. And nobody knows you better than yourself. Unless you think you can change the entire universe to do your bidding - then the best thing you can do is helping yourself and hel…

> Maturity is understanding that no matter who is to blame for the situation you are in or the problems you have, you as an individual are most of the time the only one who can fix your problems. Nothing is more effective than a determined person. And nobody knows you better than yourself.

This is not an individual problem, this is a social problem.

>Unless you think you can change the entire universe to do your bidding - then the best thing you can do is helping yourself and helping others. Nobody is helped by complaining. And I'm not missing your point, I just don't share your perspective.

There are things that are going wrong that are beyond the scope of individuals - we fix these things by regulations and laws

>because they want somebody else to be blamed and "responsible" for their life and their mistakes.

This is an irrelevant strawman, I don't care about blaming, I want to fix the issues that we have in society.

>That's why I'm saying to seek out what is good instead of what is evil. And help those who want to be helped. This is not a solution, you may as well go to clinically depressed people and go "well why don't you just be happy?" - it doesn't work. Just like how saying "well don't use social media!" doesn't work.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#486

Post by DamnInteresting »

gortok wrote: post #29

When I use a computer to do work I want the computer to be right. I want to be able to trust the computer. With the inherit non-determinism and probabilistic nature of generative-AI, that fundamental reason why I engage a computer is lost. If the spreadsheet is wrong, it’s because the math is wrong, it’s because I made a mistake. It’s not because all of a sudden the computer decided the nature of algebra should be di…

One recalls the Pentium FDIV bug, where an estimated 1 in 9 billion floating point divides with random parameters would produce inaccurate results[1]. A small subset of Pentium users would ever encounter the problem, yet it was considered a major controversy, and Intel ultimately replaced $475 million worth of CPUs (in 1994 dollars)[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug

[2] https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/its-been-30-...

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#487

Post by cozzyd »

idank wrote: post #377
cozzyd wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can barely read a datasheet correctly, in my experience, getting confused between different registers.

I'll be more forgiving: I found it gets confused easily when it extracts text from a PDF because datasheets tend to be written in a not so parseable way for a machine. But 1) if you tell it to take screenshots of said datasheet, it'll have greater success. 2) We're in year n<5 (depends how you count) of the age of LLMs, this will get better over time. Either on the LLM side or the thing you feed to it.

screenshot of the 300-page datasheet? (not to mention the 4000 page TRM?) no thanks.

If the datasheet is only a few pages I'll read it myself :).

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#488

Post by hollerith »

torginus wrote: post #373
boothby wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The math underlying the models is widely known, and there are tons of competitors, including foreign competitors. Foreign militaries investing in autonomous warfare does not assuage my concerns about my country investing in autonomous warfare. Also, have you been paying attention to median wages vs median CEO wages since the 1960s? The benefits of computing really have gone to the captains of industry.

Yet, that 80s CEO, practically a peasant by modern standards of pay, had the option to cross the Atlantic in a Mach 2 supersonic airliner. If that's not the most obvious demonstration of technological prowess, I don't know what is. In contrast, the F-35, believed to be the world's most advanced fighter jet today, has a top speed of Mach 1.6 Today's CEOs get a gold-plated sky bus.

If travelling fast were an essential component of living a good life or having a good civilization, then that would say something.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#489

Post by bheadmaster »

RadHazard wrote: post #301
bheadmaster wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reality is non-deterministic (not actually, but in practice). At a quantum level, it is also actually non-deterministic.

That's a common misconception.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#490

Post by rayiner »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #481
rayiner wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article actually proves the opposite of what you’re saying: “For the top 1 %, new borrowing each year is fairly small: 1–2 % of economic income. ‘Buy, borrow, die’ is not a dominant tax avoidance strategy for the rich.” OP above said that billionaires pay for their lifestyle by taking loans they never pay lack, and the article says that isn’t a common approach. > 1-2% of 100 million is 1-2 million dollars a year…

Great, we are in agreement. It is happening, to the tune of billions of dollars, and we both are fine with it being taxed. 1-2% of 100 million is 1-2 million dollars a year untaxed benefit (44x median income). That is substantial benefit for someone to receive. They are benefiting from buy, borrow, die. You asked for proof, I gave you proof that it is happening and is providing a substantial unfunded lifestyle (44x m…

> Great, we are in agreement. It is happening, to the tune of billions of dollars, and we both are fine with it being taxed.

Yes, but that’s not the topic. The topic is the labor share of income over time. Your link proves that these loans don’t have a meaningful effect on analyzing the division of income between capital and labor over time. They amount to 0.1% of total income.

I don’t understand why people bring this up so often. There’s dozens of tax loopholes that are greater in magnitude. Eliminating the mortgage interest deduction for example would raise 5-7 times as much money as even a 50% tax on these loan proceeds.

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