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Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

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Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#301

Post by RadHazard »

bheadmaster wrote: post #116
jstummbillig wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality is non-deterministic (not actually, but in practice). We do strange things to balance this out all the time. Thinking that computer software must be exempt from that mess as a goal is just strange, and concerns itself too much with the ideal of a tool and not enough with the more important question: What if our lives get much, much better? Roughly everyone wants more out of life including the top one percent…

> Reality is non-deterministic (not actually, but in practice). At a quantum level, it is also actually non-deterministic.

That's a common misconception.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#302

Post by monitron »

gortok wrote: post #29

When I use a computer to do work I want the computer to be right. I want to be able to trust the computer. With the inherit non-determinism and probabilistic nature of generative-AI, that fundamental reason why I engage a computer is lost. If the spreadsheet is wrong, it’s because the math is wrong, it’s because I made a mistake. It’s not because all of a sudden the computer decided the nature of algebra should be di…

Precisely! I don't think this is the whole problem but it's a part of it I keep coming back to. We took the one thing that computers were good at (getting the same answer every time, quickly and efficiently) and tossed it out the window.

Good AI system design can help somewhat, but even if you give the LLM a calculator tool, it's not guaranteed to use it every time, or to write the tool use correctly, or to copy out the answer correctly.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#303

Post by paytonjjones »

sylos wrote: post #183
thewebguyd wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd answer: No, we should not have to work to eat, they should not be mandatory, and no not everyone has to work. But those problems need solved first before completely upending the current system. The system does need changed, but that change must happen before mass unemployment, not after the fact.

The system won't change until there is massive chaos and destruction. Why would it otherwise? The people with the means to gently and voluntarily change things are living like gods. They have no incentive to help. In fact, a sick and unhealthy society keeps competitors weak. No, I'm afraid to say there will be no fixing things.

How exactly are the superrich today living like gods? They use the same phones, have access to the same entertainment, same internet, same information. Most spend a lot more time stressed out and working. The poor today live better (or, at the very least more "preferenced") lives than ever in human history.

Big houses, yachts, nice cars I guess?

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#304

Post by jondlm »

autoexec wrote: post #214
jondlm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This... this... this! This resonates soooo deeply with me. The wild thing is that these tech "systems" (aka companies) are made up of ostensibly good people. It's often impossible to look at individual people and say, "they're the cause of this damage." I believe that some form of evil (this word feel inadequate) emerges amidst these large systems that is incredibly hard to pinpoint. It's why dissension is so fucking…

> The wild thing is that these tech "systems" (aka companies) are made up of ostensibly good people. I don't think that's the case. The people running these companies certainly aren't good people and everyone else in any position of power is either happy to hurt anyone and anything in exchange for a paycheck, or they're willing to take the money and turn a blind eye to the things they know are wrong. It's difficult t…

I did say "ostensibly" ;)

Agreed that power nearly always corrupts. It does so in often subtle and slow shifts. In general we have a paucity of leaders who wield their power on behalf of the oppressed.

The truth is that the "bad" leaders need powerful help. They need someone to come alongside them and love them into the light of the damage they've caused by drifting into complacency. And I'm not talking about "nice" love here, it might initially look more like shame.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#305

Post by lambdaone »

everdrive wrote: post #35

It's no surprise. The wild tech optimism of the 1990s and 2000s has completely fallen apart as time and time again tech companies have proved to be some of the most hostile actors in most American's lives. Perhaps edged out only by things such as actual violent crime and partisan hatred. (which itself, of course, is stoked to the absolute maximum in part due to technology trends in the past 15 years or so) The loneli…

> The loneliness epidemic, a constant drip-feed of outrage -- all so that people can make a small amount of money

I think that should read "all so that a very small number of people can make a very large amount of money"

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#306

Post by jimt1234 »

newtonianrules wrote: post #24
ARandomerDude wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wildly assumes that "I voted for $candidate" means "I like $candidate." Every presidential election cycle we get served up two turds, one with a (D) and the other with an (R) by their name, and we have to pick which turd we'd like to ruin our country for us the least.

while I’d say that was true in most elections, this one the choices for the future couldn’t be more stark. The dude just had a UFC on the white house lawn, for instance, and fell into the Iran/Israel trap every previous president had avoided. But yeah, Kamala and Trump are the same level of turdness /s.

But, Brawndo's got electrolytes.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#307

Post by layer8 »

rayiner wrote: post #281
wyre wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 60s were 60 years ago. There were regulations back then that protected the common folk and capitalism wasn't as ruthless and aligned with the will of the 0.1% as it is now. I want to be optimistic and agree with you, but I don't think the parallels are as strong as you say they are. We already have Anthropic withhold Mythos from the public, the governement now allowing the use of Fable, I don't think its farfetch…

> The 60s were 60 years ago. There were regulations back then that protected the common folk and capitalism wasn't as ruthless and aligned with the will of the 0.1% as it is now. No company in the 1990s ever achieved as much market power as IBM did in the 1960s-1980s. IBM controlled 70% of the computer market at the time. Can you give me a concrete example that’s relevant to the deployment of computers?

The computer market was also much smaller and society much more independent from it at the time.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#308

Post by atmavatar »

slg wrote: post #93
everdrive wrote: post #35

It's no surprise. The wild tech optimism of the 1990s and 2000s has completely fallen apart as time and time again tech companies have proved to be some of the most hostile actors in most American's lives. Perhaps edged out only by things such as actual violent crime and partisan hatred. (which itself, of course, is stoked to the absolute maximum in part due to technology trends in the past 15 years or so) The loneli…

>The only hope we have is that they're wrong, and their power to change things will be minimal. What even is the optimistic outcome if they are right? What are we all working towards? Like do people think that these AI companies will create some superintelligence, suck up all the financial benefits of that, and then just decide to share it with the rest of us out of kindness? Because I legitimately can't see a realis…

If they're right:

* Use AI to eliminate all white collar jobs.

* Combine AI with robotics to eliminate all blue collar jobs.

* Combine AI with military hardware to kill any rabble who may become threats to the ruling class.

The most optimistic outcome is that it doesn't happen in our lifetimes. Aside from that, the best you can hope for is that the ruling class enslaves the rest but treats them well enough that most don't realize they are slaves (e.g., the Eloi from the Time Machine).

I'm cautiously optimistic about the former, but I expect the resources required by the latter will far exceed what the greed inherent to the ruling class will allow without first purging a significant fraction of the population. All we can hope for is they stop the purge before it takes everyone not in the ruling class, but given how many ultra-wealthy individuals already see the rest of us, I wouldn't bet on that.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#309

Post by pydry »

boothby wrote: post #282
rayiner wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like do people think that these AI companies will create some superintelligence, suck up all the financial benefits of that, and then just decide to share it with the rest of us out of kindness? I don’t get this. It’s like worrying in 1960 that the companies that invented computers will hoard the benefits of computing. It doesn’t make any sense. There is no secret formula to any of this. The math underlying the mod…

> The math underlying the models is widely known, and there are tons of competitors, including foreign competitors. Foreign militaries investing in autonomous warfare does not assuage my concerns about my country investing in autonomous warfare. Also, have you been paying attention to median wages vs median CEO wages since the 1960s? The benefits of computing really have gone to the captains of industry.

Tech isn't special. The value of pretty much all productivity improvements since ~1979 have been captured either via the stock market (97% owned by the top 10% in wealth) or land rents.

Re: Only 16 Percent of Americans Think AI Will Have a Positive Impact on Society

#310

Post by olalonde »

Jtarii wrote: post #270
BurningFrog wrote: post #104

The public is always against new technology that makes jobs obsolete. This is awkward because the immense progress of the last 250 years has mostly come from such technology. Yet few people are aware of this. I hope we can continue to progress by eliminating jobs, but the current backlash is probably the biggest I've seen in my life.

>The public is always against new technology that makes jobs obsolete. What backlash was there to the computer?

A lot of boomers to this day have an intense phobia of computers. My grandpa retired early because he refused to learn how to use a computer.
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