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Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

discuss.grapheneos.org

291–300 of 497 posts

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#291
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> constantly driving your attention away from the road Absolutely agree! After a few minutes you realise you forgot to disable one of the 'features' and then get distracted trying to do that. Lane keep assist is broken and dangerous Auto high beam assist is broken and dangerous Auto cruise control is broken and dangerous Collision detection-avoidance is broken and dangerous (thinks you're going to crash quite often i…

How are all these "broken and dangerous"? In my car (Volvo) they work rather well. Perhaps sign detection sometimes misses signs, but so do I so I can't fault it. The others though, I rank them all somewhere between "genuinely useful" and "absolutely awesome"

N.B. I didn't write /all/ were "broken and dangerous"

But some personal examples:

- Auto high beam assist saw a car at a side junction, turned off high beam, then turned back on, mimicking a 'flash' to let the car out, which they acted on by pulling out. I had to brake hard to avoid them. I was doing 60 mph

- I was on the motorway and a stranded vehicle was on the hard shoulder and the driver decided to exit from the side closest to my lane. I went to move over slightly to give space and avoid him, and the lane assist pushed me back towards him (there was too much traffic for me to change lanes)

- Driving in built-up areas with lots of parked cars and narrow sections, the collision avoidance has pre-activated with huge beeping warnings that massively distracted me, causing me to actually nearly hit something

These were all different modern (but not high end) vehicles

Auto cruise control doesn't take into account vehicles in other lanes etc. It encourages disengagement in dangerous situations/surroundings. It is by definition dangerous

edit: and speed sign detection is probably the most broken. The constant beeping and flashing. I mean, I don't have to explain that do I? Distraction -> danger.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#292
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now this, which ultimately - since I am a GrapheneOS user - makes me completely cancel my plans. Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind.

>Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind. "Some nerd couldn't use their nerd phone." What incentive does a dealer have to know or care about this?

You could make a similar argument about voting in democratic elections. It's still important to vote.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#293

Yeah this has less to do with VW and GrapheneOS and more to do with Google Play's attestation. Many apps don't work with sandboxed GMS/microG currently and more will come as we get closer to a locked down version of Google's Android.

GrapheneOS has 99% app compatibility with sandboxed google play. Apps do not have issues with sandboxed google play at this time.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-organized-crim... “Every time we see a Google Pixel, we suspect it might belong to a drug dealer,” said a police official leading the anti-drug operation in Catalonia.." Seems like some countries/areas are already targeting the Pixel (really its because of GrapheneOS)

It is far more likely that it is due to scams and grifts that pretend to be GrapheneOS, associated with GrapheneOS, or based on GrapheneOS, rather than GrapheneOS itself. Criminals tend to be not that bright.

* the criminals we know about

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#295
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now this, which ultimately - since I am a GrapheneOS user - makes me completely cancel my plans. Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind.

>Make sure that dealers know why you changed your mind. "Some nerd couldn't use their nerd phone." What incentive does a dealer have to know or care about this?

What is the risk of letting them know that someone lost trust in VW's features due to a boneheaded decision of their software group and decided not to buy that brand at all?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

If they have concerns about the security of their app on some platform, they have the choice to either put "security" into the app, or to trust the platform vendor to provide the security. The correct solution is the first way. Deferring trust to the platform provider is the lazy way. If their APIs are done correctly, they shouldn't be afraid to expose them.

How else would you build "security" into the app (in the sense of not allowing third-party modifications of it that would open them up to liability), except relying on hardware attestation that the app has not been modified? That attestation necessarily requires the platform provider to be involved.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I rented Cupra for a week, its assistants were non intrusive, and helpful. It was a pleasant surprise. Now don't get me started on Toyota or Hyundai assitants... BTW the video you linked features a Toyota.

Our Mercedes: - beeps about the speed limit, especially if it misses a sign. For example every time starting on a parking lot it keeps the 5 kph even after multiple turns - warns about leaving the lane, including trying to stay on the lane by slightly couter steering while ignoring yellow construction lines - Sometimes when moving off from a standstill in a queue, it triggers all "careful you're about to crash into s…

> ... it makes sleeping as a passenger on the autobahn basically impossible.

Which people often do when sharing the driving on long drives. So, another case of it making driving more dangerous, if the spare driver can not rest properly.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#298
post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

Not sure if Tesla is on your list, but FWIW Tesla app works fine on GrapheneOS

Oh it’s on a list alright

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you really think there’s no way to prevent or penalize that behavior without preventing the user from owning and operating their own engine? also, what scale of harm do you think exists from those people? do you really believe that control of one’s own engine should be removed from all vehicle owners if a few people misuse it? do you understand that vehicle manufacturers use their proprietary systems that control…

> also, what scale of harm do you think exists from those people? Serious health complications, particularly to cyclists and pedestrians. Significant pollution surges: > According to government estimates, the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times. [ https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/rolling-coal-donal... ] > AED…

All 550K diesels with modded emissions are not rolling coal, that is a wild extrapolation

I didn’t ask the multiplier of badness of a single individual doing a bad and stinky thing, I asked what you think the _scale_ is. Do you believe that all people with trucks modified to do this are doing it at all times? Or even half the time? How many people do you think are doing it?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#300
post #194
post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

I've had the same Golf since I bought it new in 2014. I like my Golf, so it should be an easy sale for VW to sell me a replacement. However, VW just seem to make gaff after gaff. Collecting information they shouldn't, exposing information they shouldn't have to hackers via lax security practices. How many rakes can a company step on? Now, they're blocking GapheneOS? They've got two hopes of selling me another 'Dub. (…

> How many rakes can a company step on?

All of em.

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